American Alchemy with Jesse Michels
The Hidden UFO Program Is Real - Here’s How It Works! (ft. UAPGerb)
11 Jan 2026
Chapter 1: What is discussed at the start of this section?
Jonathan Weygant, he is told at one point that there's a downed friendly or forehand plane. No big deal. After a combination of driving and trekking, they encounter a clearing. There's an enormous egg-shaped, teardrop-shaped craft embedded in the cliff face. And there seemed to be a hatch open with an arm hanging out with four fingers.
It was dripping with syrup-like liquid. It was everywhere. It was weird. It was purplish-green colored.
He feels like a being is communicating to him in his mind, telling him not to be scared, but also asking for help.
They were not going to harm me. That was basically that everything is going to be all right. Just help me. Just help us get out of here.
There's one common thread I found, and each of these three people had the same thing happen that they kind of answered independently.
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Chapter 2: How do legacy programs relate to UFO crash retrieval?
They're immediately intercepted by between eight and 12 operators in all black, no insignia, no name tags, held at gunpoint. All three of these men directly after their encounters were given what they were told were anthrax vaccine boosters.
anthrax booster yeah what's so weird you're one of the few people who puts names dates programs acronyms to the actual ufo legacy program you're famous for your acronyms conus and oconis outside conus continental united states intelligence surveillance reconnaissance platforms isr oici and yes ffrdc federally funded research and development centers wow correct
You have somebody like Dick Cheney maybe at the top. And then you have these six different kind of high up intelligence organizations. And DoD stuff. And DoD stuff. Yeah. Okay. So you have DoD plus intelligence organizations. Yeah. Do you know the first director of OGA, the Office of Global Access? Is that Doug Wolfe? This is Doug Wolfe. Do you know Doug Wolfe spent 16 years in the NRO?
He was the executive assistant to the director of the National Reconnaissance Office. He was indeed CIA DS&T deputy director. He indeed started the OGA. And indeed, he was the DDNI AT&F, the deputy director for National Intelligence for Acquisition Technology and Facilities. He has direct oversight over NRO acquisitions. Crazy.
It's obviously Bob Lazar, you know, was briefed on Project Looking Glass. Yeah. Which is like the manipulation of timelines. You have Tim Taylor.
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Chapter 3: What insights do whistleblower testimonies provide?
He kind of thinks of himself as like an adjustment bureau timeline management person. This sphere was basically used to, I guess, like coagulate time onto the Planck scale, looking at time as frames of Planck scale and combined with like the many worlds interpretation of quantum physics to like view parallel timelines.
What?
I'm here with Sammy UAP Gerb, who in my estimation is the most hardcore UFO researcher today. And I think in a world where kind of a lot of people like to talk in these sort of really vague generalities, it's always everything is everything. A lot of mushy brain thinking where A is true and B is true, but somehow A and B are mutually exclusive.
Nothing really makes sense, you know, except everything kind of wholeheartedly. You are one of the few people who tries to put names, dates, programs, acronyms to the actual UFO legacy program. You're famous for your acronyms.
And you have a real map that you're kind of basically like illustrating through every single episode of what is actually happening in the concrete UFO reverse engineering program. So I'm excited to get into all of that with you today. Well, thanks for having me on, Jesse. This is the kind of second big program we've done.
And a while ago, I think it was the beginning of the year, I had a super small channel you had me on, really brought some exposure to kind of my platform. So I'm super grateful to that. I appreciate you kind of taking a chance and having me on then. We had a great conversation then. We'll have an even better conversation today because...
People who've watched my channel know that what I like to do is legacy programs. You know, Chris Ramsey is interested in the experiencer. You're interested in more physics-based science. I like legacy programs. I like acronyms. I like... really boring program fundings such.
So I kind of focus on UFO legacy programs, crash retrieval, uh, basically in a sense programs to, uh, retrieve, store, exploit, and derive technologies of non-human origin. Uh, the approach I like to take is, um, really trying to iron out specifics and be as specific as possible. I've been super interested in the subject since I was a little kid, but you know, we talked about this yesterday. Um,
It seemed to me, and just like a lot of people approach this topic, like there was always the amorphous they of running UFO reverse engineering programs, the big US government, the big they. And it wasn't until David Grush spoke in 2023 that something clicked in my head and I thought, I can really start attributing names to these programs.
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Chapter 4: What are the implications of the DOE NEST in UFO retrieval operations?
He's put in isolation. And then he's given an anthrax shot, as you mentioned later. And then he's sent back to Cherry Point. After a while, Sergeant Atkins, Sergeant Ellens get mad at him if they try and talk to him. The Marines treat him like crap. So he uses marijuana to get kicked out of the Marines because it's so hellacious for him. Poor guy, man. So messed up. And you see it in his face.
He looks haunted. He looks haunted.
Yeah.
So before we started recording and so forth, he was like trembling. It still affects him deeply to this day to speak about. I can only imagine. And it took months to get him on camera. He does not want to be on camera. He lives a private life. He has a beautiful family. He works with rescue dogs a lot. Great guy, pure heart. Yeah. It's been terrible for him.
So that DOE NEST, though, I think there's a lot of interesting things there because we've talked about special nuclear material, FII, transclassified foreign nuclear information, and now NEST. I think NEST is likely used at a broad and or CONUS and OCONUS, outside CONUS, Continental United States Retrieval Operations.
The DOE and slash NNSA employ two other agencies I think are highly likely involved in UFO retrieval operations or passing recovered UFO materials between U.S. national labs here in the Continental United States. This would be DOE SRT, Special Response Team, which is sort of a federal unit, a federal protective force that has arrest on-site authority within the U.S.
These are the guys that safeguard nuclear material. These are the guys that safeguard Sandia and National Labs. And then the DOE NSA, NNSA, OST, or Office of Secure Transportation. These are the guys that drive the big rigs that transport the materials. Now, the common thing between all three of these agencies, NEST, SRT, and OST, these are not comprised of DOD employees.
These are comprised of contractors. Okay. All three of them are comprised of contractors. For example, Sandia has designed the big rigs that OST uses. But that's not the point. The contractors involved are Sandia, Lawrence Livermore, Los Alamos, Raytheon, and our former good friend, now part of Amentum, EG&G.
EG&G, of course, is the company that allegedly hired Bob Lazar to work out at Area 51 S4. EG&G... was, of course, spearheaded by Donald Kerr, of course, of the NRO.
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Chapter 5: How do whistleblower testimonies shape our understanding of UFO incidents?
Once... It was determined that this was a hoax and that Stalin was able to get a craft over the United States and it crashed. And it had, you know, people inside of it. They were people that were sort of deformed and meant surgically altered to look like aliens.
The United States government decided that it needed to know what on earth that was all about and if it was possible for us to have the same program. This according to the source, right? Now, that source is Al O'Donnell, who is the nuclear weapons engineer. who armed, wired, and fired 186 nuclear weapons.
That's harder to believe than aliens.
Yeah, right.
To be quite honest. Right. Listening to George Knapp talk about this, you can tell he's a little bit frustrated because he spent... Because he has the same source as her. And Alfred O'Donnell told him that it's... And he also has the trade point of that source. George Knapp stated that...
There was a meeting set up between one of the heads of EG&G, Edgerton, Germanhausen, and Greer, for one of them to meet with him, Dick D'Amato. You know, Dick D'Amato of the... I think he was SSCI, right? He was kind of in charge of probing saps and stuff. And Alfred O'Donnell to talk about recovered UFOs. And this was sometime in the 90s.
And when they got to this meeting, the subject of UFOs was off the table. And this was the turning point for Al O'Donnell. He would never speak about it again. What's really interesting, though, is that... Al O'Donnell apparently said to George Knapp that in the early 1950s, 1954 to be exact, that the recovered saucer was kind of transferred into Area 51 adjacent sites.
Conventionally, you would think that that is because Area 51 was supposedly built in 1954, established in 1954. Even though there's strong arguments that underground sites near Area 51 existed far before that with the Borax mines. Right. I'm of a different mind.
I think that craft was moved in 1954 because the 1954 Atomic Energy Agreement gave expanded powers to government-owned contractor-operated laboratories like Sandia and so forth to house the craft. And thus, 1954 resembles a turning point when DOE, FFRDCs, and NNSA, which was established in the year 2000, started to kind of hang on to these materials themselves.
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Chapter 6: What are the key crash retrieval events and their significance?
Yes. It's crazy. Numerous scientific agencies were involved. The AFSWP, which would later become DITRA was involved. And that in the early 1950s, there was a shift in how these craft were held and craft were given over to government owned contractor operated hands to be custodians. So that's one of the biggest interesting things in J Andrew Kistner's testimony that puts a lot of faith in, um,
In my opinion of him, as he talks about this, which comports strongly with with my idea that National Lab started to take over these materials and house them in the 1950s. Indeed, J. Andrew Kistner, allegedly in 1995, told other New Mexico state rep Stephen Schiff about this. Stephen Schiff launched a giant probe into Roswell.
And there's a GAO audit and investigation into Roswell where apparently the Air Force had lost all of their files into Roswell. So that's a really interesting rabbit hole. Steven Schiff, I think, is on record saying like complaining about.
Yes.
Yes. He says that the records were like rampant or like inappropriately destroyed. All that good stuff. So crazy. It seems like the mid 1990s has a lot of really weird events that might have had to cause UFO legacy programs to reorganize themselves to hide behind this special access program oversight committee special senior review group. Makes sense. Interesting.
So that was when this reorg happened. Yeah. Okay. 1950s. Okay. And so, yeah, again, we talked about why the National Labs would be perfect to house some of these stuff. I've talked about it before. It's another individual that needs to go further vetting because there's some stuff that checks out with his testimony and some stuff that begs more questions.
But he has stated he has worked under the Y-12 complex, which houses Oak Ridge on a UFO legacy program that studies the skin of two recovered non-human saucer craft. Whoa. And this is a current guy that you're in touch with. As of 18 months ago. Wow. 18 months, 24 months, like within the last one.
And he's saying that that Oak Ridge houses this program that does like, you know, kind of material analysis on on UFO materials. Yeah. Yeah. So things further need to be vetted with him. So again, if you're listening to this interview, this shouldn't be the takeaway. This should be considered an interesting addendum to the conversation already.
Like, hey, maybe this is possibly true, but there's some interesting stuff there. To recover disks, he states that MITRE and Battelle are the two primary folks involved with this and that the DOE, OICI, Office of Intelligence and Counterintelligence are the people that kind of... Run the show. Have you tried to stress test what he said or corroborate it through independent channels?
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Chapter 7: What implications arise from legacy programs in UFO research?
It's very disturbing, the implications of the power of legacy programs. Yeah. So we mentioned a lot of these places that probably house UFOs and you talk about historical corroboration for that. What about places in the United States that house alien bodies? Are you confident in any of those locations?
Chapter 8: What locations in the U.S. are believed to house alien bodies?
By its description, that would probably be Dugway. Okay. That'd probably be one of the biggest places, as well as maybe like Fort Detrick, Maryland. Mm-hmm. Wherever there's Battelle and some of Battelle's biological-focused FFRDCs, I can't remember the acronyms right now, but wherever Battelle is located, I would highly believe that these are the places where bodies are stored.
Historically, bodies were kept on ice at Wright-Patterson, flown from Roswell, but with the evolution of legacy programs, there are probably more. Which is very scary to think about. There are probably laboratories that house deceased non-human biologics. Are you in touch with anybody who has seen an alien body? Yeah. And what do they say about the bodies? And are they cryonically frozen?
These people weren't abducted. They're seen in a government context.
These bodies are being stored. During a crash retrieval? Yeah. Or during a crash retrieval.
What always comes up is the gray aliens. It's like the wraparound eyes, almond-shaped heads, large black eyes, gray, tan, brownish skin. That's the common trope. Specifically in an egg. Yeah. In a manned egg that somebody was present for a retrieval for. So what about not on a retrieval? What about these bodies stored in military facilities? Yeah, a place out in California. Oh, okay.
An unnamed place, a place that doesn't have its own designation. I don't even know who the heck runs it. Whoa. Like one of those in-plane site things and like, you know, corporate. Can you say where? I'm not sure exactly where. SoCal. Okay. SoCal region. Not Antelope Valley, but Antelope Valley probably deals with tech more.
And you think they're, and you feel confident in this whistleblower, not whistleblower, this person who's contacted you? Yeah. That's the person I would stake my entire rep on. Can you say anything high level about them? They don't want to be talked about.
Okay.
Not at all. And I got to respect that. Sure, sure, sure. Did you get in touch with them or did they get in touch with you? I got in touch with them. This person's a personal hero to me and I just got to... Okay. If they don't want to be talked about, I must respect.
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