Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes Present
Killer Thriller: When you need to be afraid of your father.
15 Feb 2026
Chapter 1: What true crime stories are explored in this episode?
This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze. Her husband, Mike, was on his laptop. What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever.
I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. And immediately, the mask came off.
You're supposed to be safe. That's your home. That's your husband. Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Ryder Strong, and I have a new podcast called The Red Weather. In 1995, my neighbor and a trainer disappeared from a commune. It was nature and trees and praying and drugs.
So no, I am not your guru.
Back then, I lied to everybody.
They have had this case for 30 years.
I'm going back to my hometown to uncover the truth. Listen to The Red Weather on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
On June 11th, 1998, a deputy from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department went missing.
Hey, if they'll kill a cop and bury him, what are they going to do to me?
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Chapter 2: How did Larry Ray manipulate his daughter's college friends?
Yeah, exactly. And Billy couldn't have been a better partner to explore what like coercive people do that want to manipulate you and take your power away. And, you know, anyway, it's a pretty horrible tale. So I read something where one of the survivors said that Ray took you say he took away everything that made me me. That is like a very strong statement.
So, I mean, how do you even begin to translate that on screen? How do you that feels like a big responsibility? I think that. You know, first the actors have to be willing to go there. And then, you know, in the breaking down of somebody's sense of self and self-worth, you know, you're really getting to play in an area in our psyche that is so fragile and that we have to protect.
I say this to my son all the time. I'm like, be careful who you spend time with. You will become like them. you know, protect your peace, right? All the things we say as parents or, but it is so important to not give your power away or to let somebody degrade you because as they degrade you, you begin to lose exactly what that quote, like he took away every part of myself.
Now you're only swimming in shame and you're going to start to recede from, you know, any observation of other people because you're so ashamed. And then it gets darker and darker and darker as you begin to kind of fall into a pattern, you know, of terrible behavior. I mean, that's really what happened.
You know, once she started to particularly be prostituted, her sense of self was so eroded and she was so ashamed and she'd gotten into a cycle that was so shameful that she then totally pulled away from her parents. In the meantime, her parents were begging her, to allow them to save her, protect her and to remove her from that relationship. Like actually I played Claudia's mom in the movie.
And one of my favorite scenes is when, um, he comes to my house and there's she, and he are sitting there and I physically attacked him and she left with him. Right.
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Chapter 3: How did the film 'Girl in the Basement' portray the real-life events?
That is, that's like a self worth issue because she couldn't deal with us saving her. She couldn't say, right, right. That as a mother, I have a 13 year old daughter and you know, these years, 13, 14, they're so particularly vulnerable and really trying to figure out who they are. And I see my daughter, um,
Chapter 4: What challenges did Elisabeth Röhm face in directing these stories?
you know, taking on other people's behaviors. Now we're talking about very simple sort of, you know, uh, basic things, but I, I'm always trying to say to her, you have to remember who you are.
Chapter 5: What psychological tactics did Larry Ray use to control his victims?
Cause this is a kid who was like her own person all the time. Always. Right. Always a little bit. you know, some weird outfits always was interested in interesting things and did. And I see this kind of like narrowing of her vision and it's, it really is about self-worth and confidence and all those things.
And if we don't develop them and really value a sense of self, it's so easy to fall into these, you know, And it's hard. How do you actually parent people? You can't control them. I mean, you can't demand it. You can't force them into having a good relationship with themselves. But I don't know.
Maybe if we are people who want to manifest good experiences in our lives and we think positive thoughts and our thoughts become things and so forth and we're teaching our children how to protect our thoughts and our individuality, I try to at least say to Anthony, you know, to, you know, really be careful who he spends time with because you will become like the people you spend time with.
And I have in my own life spent time with people who've elevated me and I've spent time with people who've brought me to the gutter. So true. It's so true. So, you know, that's very true. Were you were you shocked by how long this went on? Like how long some some of these people up? I read it till 10 years later. They were still under hit like for for that long of a period of time.
Like, does that surprise you? I think what it did is it taught me how easily we can lose ourselves and to go back to protecting ourselves, not from others or from intimacy or from even trusting making new relationships, but just really listening to your spidey senses. Yeah. Right. The minute you think that something is not correct and it is does not feel right. It is not right. Yep.
And because the further you go in to that kind of bad behavior, the harder it is to get out because you begin to lose contact with other people. You begin to lose contact with your family and you begin to lose contact with your inner voice. And you're doing things you feel terribly ashamed of. So then you, like you said, you begin to lose your sense of self.
And that's how people get stuck in abusive relationships of any sort of abuse. That's kind of the core, one of the core values of the cult of how you get there. Like the sleep deprivation, the more sleep deprived you are, the more you can't think straight, the more susceptible you are to things. And it's a slippery slope.
So you worked with legal analyst Dan Abrams to get access to Ray's trial transcripts, which is incredible. Tell me about that. I mean, it must have been very, very useful. Absolutely. Because what we did is, again, we were waiting for the trial for years. It kept getting postponed because he kept claiming he had medical issues.
And that's oftentimes something that a criminal, an accused person, I should say,
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Chapter 6: What events led to the exposure of the Girl in the Basement case?
Right. And what Anthony Robinson was going to be found guilty of it, which would have impacted the whole ending of the movie. Sure. Sure. I mean, this is again, why this is these, your movies feel very deep and nuanced and not sensationalized. It's, you know, research and proper actual backdrop of what's happening.
So did you, so when this is something that I was thinking and reading all of this, like where all along the journey, like where were the grownups? Where were the adults? Where was, where were these people's parents aside from Claudia? Even, you know, we only see her part of the time. So did you wonder that too? Like where... What about the other parents? Where were they? They were around.
All the parents were trying to get their kids. These were kids who were loved. You know, the Santos siblings that were involved. You know, again, he was extorting money from them by claiming that they had damaged his property. And they're going... hand out to their parents, some with wealthy parents, some with not wealthy parents, and asking for money.
I mean, they all just got in so deep with this guy. And what do parents do when their child is in trouble? They want to take care of them. Oh, did our child do this thing? And then they're helping their child out that first time. But then there's a second time and a third time and a fourth, you know, and then it's looking like a racket. So then there's conflict within the family.
But these families, you know, to my knowledge, were very much trying to get their kids out of this relationship. Right. Did working on this change how you think about cult behavior? Absolutely. Actually, last year, we just sold a series to NBC that was about coercive thought. It's not going to move forward.
But what's interesting is that really birthed the whole idea that we need medical professionals that help sort of unscramble people's minds. Once somebody gets in there and kind of dismantles you and takes you apart, you need to be put back together and you need help and you need experts to help you with that.
And I think that's a very interesting way to look at victims, to look at crimes and to look at healing. Yes, I've I talked with Sarah Edmondson, who was in the NXIVM cult, and I'm just blown away by her, how she has really, really does the work continually and continues to do it and to try to help other people. And it's because it's not a simple thing. exit. No.
And you're not an, you're not an idiot or not a good evolved person because you got manipulated by a monster who just targeted you. Right. Right. Back to the dating app killer. Yes. You know, she was, Monica White was a target and he was always looking for these targets that seemed particularly lonely and were articulating their
their need for love and you know he was looking for these victims too right so do you think that's the primary thing they like why why why fall smart people get pulled into things like this that is loneliness like a lack of love that and also these master manipulators they know exactly how to get into your head tell you what you want to hear give you what that you want to get and
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Chapter 7: What lessons can parents learn from these true crime narratives?
Right, right.
Yeah, there's a scene in the movie where he takes a hammer to one of the kids and to threaten them. And I just remember the heartbreak in that actor's eyes. because he was just trying to like please him, but it turned really fast. And then it becomes an act of violence.
And there's so much disappointment and so much hurt in this person, in this actor, but in the way they portrayed it that I can see, I hope, you know, in the audience can see that, you know, then even that begins to break down your sense of self because you've trusted this person and now they're degrading you and you feel, what have I done wrong?
Chapter 8: How can individuals protect themselves from manipulative relationships?
And then you begin to sort of doubt yourself.
Right, the confusion.
Right, you get so confused. And that begins to break down your self-esteem too.
In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze. Her husband Mike was on his laptop.
What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever.
I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. And immediately, the mask came off.
You're supposed to be safe. That's your home. That's your husband. To keep this secret for so many years, he's like a seasoned pro. This is a story about the end of a marriage, but it's also the story of one woman who was done living in the dark.
You're a dangerous person who preys on vulnerable and trusting people. Your predator might go up in good.
Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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