Tamar never considered alcoholism a possibility. Drinking initially felt grounding and connective rather than escapist. Over time, it became essential for managing anxiety, grief, social interaction, and professional life in the arts world. The progression was gradual but unmistakable: secret drinking, carrying flasks, structuring life around alcohol availability, drinking during work hours, and rationalizing it all as part of a creative lifestyle. The turning point came when Tamar found herself swigging warm vodka from a stolen bottle at 9 a.m. in a closet and hearing an inner voice say, “You probably want to look at this.”The pod then shifts into a deep exploration of recovery. In a wide-ranging conversation, we talk about emotional sobriety, spirituality versus religion, ego, slogans, and the meaning of surrender. Tamar describes recovery not as achieving perfection or constant happiness, but becoming “more joyous, more happy, more free.” Jason shares his experience of entering AA as a militant atheist and eventually reframing spirituality as ego reduction rather than religious conversion.The interview ends with a discussion of “the pause,” learning not to react impulsively, and understanding that sometimes doing nothing is an action.Key Topics & Themes Discussed:Alcohol for Connection - "The drinking was not to so much escape, but to engage more.”The Slow Creep of Addiction - “Drinking was working until it stopped working.”Recovery as Reframing, Not Perfection - Tamar rejects the fantasy version of recovery:Spirituality vs Religion - “I see the entire 12 steps as a complete hack to get rid of your ego.”Emotional Sobriety - Tamar defines emotional sobriety: “If I can go to bed without having to make an amends the next day.”Memorable Quotes:“I was too much of a coward to commit suicide, but I was praying not to wake up.”“I used to feel a lot of pressure when I heard, 'you're going to be joyous, happy and free.' That is way too much to expect and I'm just going to be set up for disappointment. And then one of my million sponsors said, 'what it is MORE joyous, MORE happy, and MORE free.'"“If I hit the pillow sober, it’s been a good day.”“Not doing something is possibly one of the best directions I can hear from my higher power and to figure out what that next indicated step is to do nothing.”“I had a bottle in my desk slash office. I had a bottle in the car.”“The dire need to be special has lessened.”

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