Michael Pollan Returns (on consciousness)
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What is discussed at the start of this section?
Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert, Experts on Expert. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Miniature Mouse.
Hi.
Tweet, tweet. Returning guest, but first time in person. I think it was a Zoomie.
He was Zoomie, yeah.
He had the Zoomies. But he's here in person. He's wearing a very cute sweater. And it was very fun to have him in 3D. Michael Pollan, an award-winning author and journalist. How to change your mind. A movement. A sociological phenomenon.
Yeah, changed people's minds.
That's right. This is your mind on plants. I think that's what we spoke to him about. The Omnivore's Dilemma, another big, huge hit in defense of food. And his new book, which is the trippiest by far. I enjoyed the hell out of it. A World Appears, A Journey Into Consciousness. Please enjoy Michael Pollan. He's an object expert.
How are you? Welcome. Thank you.
Happy to have you.
What a good sweater you have on.
Thank you. It is a good color. Did you pick out your sweaters or did you use your wife? I picked this one out, but she approved it. I mean, before I got to the register.
Always good to have a second opinion. Definitely.
My wife has taste. She's an artist. Really nice. Have you been offered everything to drink? Yes, I have your liquid death here. I know you like caffeine. Do you want a coffee? I do. No, I'm okay. I've had my caffeine for the day, but thank you.
That's true. We did discuss caffeine last time.
I have different caffeine rules. Yeah, I make exceptions all the time. Like yesterday, I had a talk at night and I was exhausted after a long flight. I had a coffee. Didn't kill me. I slept. What time? Four in the afternoon.
Okay, that's risky. Yeah, I know.
Yeah, you're playing with fire. Yeah, but I knew I was so tired.
Yeah, you had to.
I would overcome it. How are you as a sleeper? Not bad. If you have issues, is it falling asleep or staying asleep? It's staying asleep. It's waking up and then ruminating. That's a hobby of mine, too. I know. I hate that. And do you find that when you wake up, you're like, I don't care at all about that thing I thought about for an hour. Yeah, that seems so important. I know. It's nuts. And you have to imagine, well, this is going to look different in the morning. Yet you're armed with the history. So I'll go like, oh man, I'm spiraling about this and I know I won't care in the morning and it has no impact. That should do the trick. This is a perfect launching off point for your book. This is madness, right?
This is consciousness. This is undermining you. I got to say. First of all, I love your book so much. Thank you. It launched me into so many philosophical directions, as I love for that to happen, but also daunting to cover in one interview, to be honest with you. There's a lot of dimensions to it, but, you know, we can just pick out the parts you wanted. Yeah. Well, I want to talk about all the parts, and I know you have a hard out, so I'm going to get right into it. Okay. Have we started?
Always.
We're ABR. That means Always Be Recording.
Okay, good to know.
So, we're in.
It's important that people know you picked that sweater out. Yeah, I guess it is.
Yeah, or that your wife... Approved it.
Even when you didn't know you were being recorded, you said, my wife has great style. She's an artist.
That's really... I get points for that.
But I was thinking before we get into this, I would have to imagine, you tell me if I'm wrong, at this point, you're most known for how to change your mind. Yeah, I mean, amongst a certain group, other people know me for the food books. I'm the worst dilemma in defense of food. And I would say it's about equal. You know, when people come up to me, strangers in a restaurant, it's like 50-50. Are they going to talk to me about their diet or their last psychedelic trip? Right. And I try to guess which it's going to be. If not the start of, you were the first to anchor it publicly in academia or some kind of science so that— This revolution of openness to psychedelics, you're really, really integral in.
Yeah, that had to do with my age, that I had some credibility talking about health from the food work, and I was new to it.
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Chapters
7 chapters
1
What is discussed at the start of this section?
0:00–27:39
2
How does Michael Pollan define consciousness?
27:39–32:21
3
What is the 'hard problem' of consciousness?
32:21–1:12:38
4
What insights does Michael Pollan share about solitude in a cave?
1:12:38–1:13:19
5
How does extreme solitude affect our sense of self?
1:13:19–1:15:15
6
What lessons does Pollan learn about presence and consciousness?
1:15:15–1:16:30
7
How does the discussion on consciousness relate to personal experiences?
1:16:30–2:09:38