Purgatorio: Beatrice (Cantos 32-33) with Joshua Charles and Dr. Frank Grabowski

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Recorded31 Mar 2026

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Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Harrison discusses the last two cantos of the Purgatorio (32-33) with Joshua Charles of Eternal Christendom and Dr. Frank Grabowski of Holy Family Classical School. We are reading the ODYSSEY NEXT! Check out our 12-week schedule.See our collection of written guides to the great books!Check out Joshua Charles' Eternal Christendom.Check out Holy Family Classical School in Tulsa, Oklahoma.They explore the symbolic significance of Beatrice's role in guiding Dante through his spiritual journey, highlighting her as a representation of divine grace and wisdom. The conversation also touches on the allegorical elements of the sacred tree and the griffin, which symbolize Christ and the intertwining of spiritual and temporal authority.The episode further examines the complex allegories of spiritual and temporal power, focusing on themes of judgment, schism, and the corruption within the church. The guests discuss Dante's critique of ecclesiastical corruption, particularly involving figures like Boniface VIII and the Avignon Papacy, and how these historical contexts are woven into the narrative. The prophetic visions of church corruption, represented by the harlot and the coming hero, the Greyhound, are analyzed for their implications on Dante's vision of divine justice and societal renewal. The discussion is enriched with references to biblical texts, especially the Book of Revelation, which heavily influences Dante's imagery.Throughout the episode, the philosophical underpinnings of Dante's work are explored, with particular attention to the influences of Platonic, Augustinian, and Thomistic thought. The conversation transitions from the individual soul's purification journey to broader societal and political reflections, emphasizing the need for harmony between spiritual and temporal powers. The episode concludes with reflections on Dante's vision for renewal and hope, encouraging listeners to consider the allegories as guides for personal sanctification and societal transformation.Chapters00:00 Introduction and Context of the Podcast03:07 Exploring Dante's Purgatorio06:02 The Role of Beatrice and Grace08:50 Imagery and Symbolism in Canto 3212:06 The Pageant of Church History15:00 The Griffin and the Tree of Knowledge17:53 Temporal vs. Spiritual Authority20:45 The Significance of the Pageant23:57 Concluding Thoughts on Dante's Vision29:18 The Role of the Church in Governance30:01 Wealth and Temptation: The Weight of Luxury32:13 Temporal Authority vs. Spiritual Purpose34:26 The Emergence of the Dragon: Schism and Violence36:05 The Transformation of the Chariot: Corruption and Power38:47 The Harlot and the Giant: The Church's Grotesque Reality42:37 Dante's Perspective on the Papacy and Authority49:35 The Need for a Temporal Leader55:41 The Prophetic Vision of the Future01:00:21 The Purifying Power of Temporal Authority01:04:21 The Role of the Tree in Justice01:06:47 Understanding the Moral and Anagogical Senses01:10:46 The Discord Between Heaven and Earth01:16:42 The Significance of the Two Rivers01:22:40 Baptism and the Renewal of the SoulGood work on reading the Purgatorio!We have a few episodes from THE ASCENT up next and then we are reading the Odyssey.

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