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Chapter 1: What inspired Sarah Lavis to share her story about being a victim?
This is Australian True Crime with Michelle Laurie. Some of our most memorable episodes have come about because listeners sent us their stories. Today's guest did just that. Her name is Sarah Lavis, and she woke up one night to the worst nightmare imaginable. She joins us to talk about it. This is Australian True Crime.
We acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is created, the Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung people of the Kulin Nation. And a warning, this episode of the podcast contains graphic descriptions of sexual violence. Sarah, I wanted to start with reading out the email that you sent us.
And I'll tell you why, because it's the shortest and most impactful email I think I've ever received. It's like, it's so short. And yet when you, by the end of it, you're like, whoa, that is...
full on hi Michelle listening to your recent podcast I found it interesting about the two camps of the courtroom being more victim centric versus not so we talk about that a lot obviously you've noticed you've picked up on that because a lot of victims victims families say it's all about the offender
And Charlie Bozzina, our lovely friend, former homicide detective, says he wishes that there were photos of the victims in the court so everyone could remember who it's really about. So that's the sort of, they're the conversations we've been having. Lex Lasry, our former High Court judge, says that's ridiculous, should never happen. So yeah, there's some pretty strong views.
But you said, I thought I might have a unique perspective as someone who survived a stranger, stalker, rape and strangulation. As a victim, I wanted the court to be focused on the crime, the perpetrator and the evidence. I did not want the spotlight to be put on emotional aspects.
I do understand that as a family member that has lost a loved one, they are solely focused on their person and getting justice. I believe having a picture of the victim could increase the emotion of loved ones and possibly be more distracting to the court.
I also think as victims and family members, I found the hardest and most confusing part of court to be around guilty pleas and downgraded charges. Yes, agreed. I wish true crime would put some explanation and focus on this to help people understand why sentencing is often so low.
And then you add this, I also had a cousin killed in a headbutt incident that left our family shocked and confused about the court process. So as I say, such a short to the point email, but what massive.
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Chapter 2: What unique perspective does Sarah provide on the courtroom experience?
And so when someone says something, we think, oh, yeah, that sounds right. And then someone says the opposite, oh, yeah, that sounds right. But it takes a lived experience like yours, I think, to really... make us think about it from your perspective, hopefully.
Yeah, because as a victim, the court's not about me. I don't want it to be about me. I want it to be about the crime and the perpetrator. The more we go into victim territory, then the more the defence starts pulling victims apart, starts going through their life story, and then we as victims then have to defend ourselves more, right? which is what we've seen over and over again.
I think it should be based on the perpetrator, on the crimes that they've committed, and everybody should be equal as a victim.
Yeah, that's a really interesting point. Are you prepared to talk about the crime that was committed against you? Yeah, of course. When you say a stranger stalking, that's rare, but seems like increasingly we're hearing more about it. Yeah, it was very rare, they said at the time.
I didn't know he was stalking me really till after the fact. I'd said a few times, I feel like someone had been in my house. to my friends. And because I was 19 and young, everyone was like, oh, I think, you know, I think maybe you're just thinking too much into it. And I had a key go missing, my spare key. And so there was no broken end to that key was taken.
Where did it go missing from?
From inside my home.
Okay, so he's gotten in there somehow first and then found the despair case.
And it wasn't until probably like years later and I'd said to my mum and she said, well, once he'd been convicted, they worked out that he was actually working at the house across the road. for quite a few weeks. So that's where it would have come from. But at the time, I had no idea. I had no idea who he was.
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Chapter 3: How does Sarah feel about the focus on victims in court?
But still, you just think in your head, oh, I'm making it up. I'm being silly.
Well, this is what I believe is the benefit of true crime, of what you and I are doing here right now, is that I know from talking to police and other victims that the pattern you're describing is not uncommon at all. The peeping Tom
turns into gaining access while you're not home, maybe taking some little things of yours or moving things around, and then eventually gaining access when you are home and attacking you. So Now I feel like we know and we give more credence to those feelings, you know. If my daughter said, I feel like someone's been in my home, of course I would overreact because of my job. Yeah, of course.
But so what made you feel like someone, I'm getting shivers just thinking about feeling like someone's been in my home. What made you think that?
I think because I was young, I didn't have a lot of stuff.
and so I'd noticed when things had just been moved slightly I'd noticed that things had been moved on the windowsill so I felt like maybe someone had come in but I kind of just mentioned it to my friends and everyone was like oh you know you have friends come over all the time like people move stuff so I wonder if maybe looking back it was more of a vibe as well like that feeling that you know that
Yeah.
Things aren't right.
Yeah. Yeah. But everyone's telling you, don't be silly, basically. Yeah. And I'm not having a go at anyone in your life, I think. Oh, no, of course not. A lot of us would have, because it sounds impossible.
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Chapter 4: What challenges do victims face during the court process?
Yeah, so I'd been out and I'd come home. I think it was like 2 o'clock in the morning. My friends had brought me home and then we'd sat up and then they'd left and I went to bed. So it was probably about 3, 3.30 in the morning and I got up to go to the toilet and he was standing in my doorway. Yeah. Everyone's nightmare.
And of course, being so naive, I was just like, I think you've got the wrong house. Like, you know, trying to think, oh, he's a bit drunk, like try and get him out because I could see the back door was wide open and try and, and that's when it turned really violent.
Yeah.
obviously he hadn't walked into the wrong home no had he been in there do you think or like while your friends and that were there or had he come i don't think so i don't think so so yeah i remember it was like obviously the rape was pretty violent and then um It's a bit blurry sometimes because I got hit in the head like I do.
I remember getting strangled and waking up, but then he left, but he came back. And then when he seen I was still there and had come round, that's when he said, like, if you go to the police, if you tell anyone, I will come back and kill you. So I'm not sure if he thought that I was gone and that's why he came back. Yeah, obviously I was going to call the police straight away.
Yeah. So it's a miracle that he didn't kill you. I mean, yeah, I thought, oh, maybe he thought he had killed you the first time.
Maybe, yeah.
And that he didn't then come back and finish it. Yeah. Is quite miraculous. Yeah. I'm sure now you know lots about the offender, who you didn't know at the time. Yeah. Had he offended before? Yes. Yep.
So I live on the border, and he defended in Victoria, and this crime was in New South Wales. And because this was 20 years ago, we didn't have a national DNA registry. So he wasn't picked up until they joined the registry six years later. So he had been to prison for stalking, breaking in, leaving his DNA on women's beds. Yes.
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Chapter 5: What is the significance of guilty pleas and downgraded charges?
What sort of support did you have? So I've got a pretty good family.
Yeah. But I mean, they don't know how to handle this either. No. I mean, you've been raped in your own home by a stranger.
I think in the beginning, I was just so numb. Like even in my counseling sessions, I've got like the first year that says I pretty much said nothing for the whole year. Like, I think I took a really long time to kind of understand what had happened and, you know, to get out of that numb phase.
Yeah. Surely that's your mind sort of trying to protect you.
Yeah. And I think my upbringing probably had a bit to do with it too, because like I'm brought up by very strong, successful men, but very loving. Like I'd never even really seen misogyny. I'd never seen any violence. So it was kind of shocking for me because I hadn't grown up in that and I'd grew up on a farm.
So it's not like I see it in the streets, like people who live in the city all the time. And yeah, so it was really like a hard concept, I think, for my mind to get around. So at the six year mark, what happened? Is that when they joined the databases? Yeah. I still remember I was at work, I was working in the mines then, and I got a phone call to say we found him.
Oh my God.
Yeah, it was shocking because I'd kind of got Like to that point where I was like, well, it's never going to happen. I don't need to stress about court now. Like, yeah, it was kind of a bit of a bombshell.
And also, had you told anyone up there? No. Yeah, so you're sort of living a life like pretending it never happened sort of thing?
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Chapter 6: How does the sentencing process affect victims and their families?
Now I look back and think, oh my God, like, you know, to anyone I would say take a lot of time. But I think for me, I just couldn't process it and I just needed to. And I did that for a long time. Like when I moved to Queensland, I worked a full-time job during the week and then I worked split shift on the mines on the weekend just so I... I think I didn't have to think. I could just keep going.
I get that.
Like, take a lot of time to do what? Think about it. Yeah, exactly. I don't want to do that.
Yeah. So then that's why I think everything came crashing down when they rang and said, OK, we've got him.
Because then I was like, okay, now I need to process. Yeah. So then this is pre-COVID. And the reason I say that is because now it feels like our court times are still so much longer because of the backlog from COVID and all that sort of stuff. So how long did it take from that day to get to trial? It was definitely under 12 months. Wow. Okay. It's now to be two years, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It wasn't that long. I feel like it might have been like around the eight-month mark. So I ended up moving from where I was to the Gold Coast because I was so remote and then that way I could fly easily back and forth.
Yeah, because what do you have to do during that period of time? It feels like there would be a lot of work essentially for you to do, wouldn't there?
They didn't really ask me to go back over it. And like I did say, there was a lot kind of missing in my statement. Because when you first go in, like it's very like bits and pieces and they even noted that in the statement. But then going back, I was like, well, it's six years later. I don't want to put stuff in now and seem like I'm trying to throw it.
And I think that's a big mistake that a lot of us make is you think, oh, if you put it in retrospectively, are they then going to question it?
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Chapter 7: What impact does the court experience have on victims' lives?
No, the evidence was there. Yeah. So what's the benefit to you and to the rest of us if he gets his charges?
And even in my letter that the DPP sent me, there's a full sentence that I have highlighted from the DPP saying how beneficial it would be for me emotionally to not go to trial and take... Yeah, take this plea. And so what I didn't realize is once you take aggravated out of it, then all of a sudden, then there's no one aggravated charge.
So then he gets charged with three counts of sexual assault. You serve them all at the same time concurrently. If it's aggravated, you've got 20 years.
And aggravated, what does that, it means with violence essentially, doesn't it? Like an aggravated robbery is with violence. Yeah.
again important yeah but they told me so he's got three sexual assault charges he's got three assault charges like and so I'm adding them up going okay well that adds up to 20 years anyway like because I didn't understand what concurrent meant no one explained it to me and also like I'd ring my mum crying and saying I'm trying to work and I'm negotiating with this arsehole on that
At the end, like, why as a victim am I negotiating with him? Why is this my decision, my choice?
Yeah. Like, I don't. Your job. Yeah. I mean, it's not your choice. It's your job that they're enforcing on you.
Yeah. So how long did he get? So because he pled guilty, he got the 25% discount. And then his longest sentence after the discount was seven years. And so I walked out of there and I think, when I hear families say, I can't understand how they got so little time, I 100% understand because I think me, mum and dad walked out of there and looked at each other. What just happened?
Like, how did that just happen? That is not what we were prepared for. And I think a lot of people are the same. We don't understand what it actually means when we take that plea.
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Chapter 8: What message does Sarah want to convey to other victims?
And to have to stand up in front of everybody in court and go through everything in detail. Why are they cross-examining you? When they've looked at it, there's so much evidence, so much DNA evidence, physical evidence.
Do you have a lawyer at this point in the process? You have the DPP. Right. But they're the ones trying to tell you to take a bargain, to let him plead.
Yeah. And I'm sure if you asked them the questions, they'd explain it too. Yeah, but you didn't know them. No, yeah. I didn't know what questions to ask. And I think that's why, because I keep hearing it time and time again, when people are like, I was surprised about concurrent, I was surprised how low the sentencing was.
And I think, oh, you're like me, like going in thinking, oh, this is how the system works.
And as I say, most of us don't ever go into court until it's the worst day of our lives, right? Yeah, absolutely. And I've started going recently just to observe and I'm shocked every time at just little things, sometimes big things, just the way it works. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't.
I think that's what people don't understand why it doesn't make sense. They don't realize what you get charged with is not what you get sentenced with. That follows all the way through. Next time you come up, they're only looking at what you got sentenced for. They're not looking at what you got charged with.
Well, and also they can't bring up prior convictions or anything, right? Until sentencing. Until sentencing.
Yeah, so they're not looking at the whole picture in the first place because you downgrade it. Then you get your 25% off. And then if you behave in prison, meaning you keep your hands to yourself, which, you know, my three-year-old nephew can do, then they get out early on parole.
If I get a speeding fine, I can't walk into the RTA and say, you got me for 40, I'm only going to accept 20 over the limit and I'll pay you 50%. That's a good point. How does that work? Do your deal. Yeah. It needs to be more structured. There needs to be less nuance. If you get charged with this, this is what you should go out for.
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