Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Is lit just a copycat beta trade to hype? Or is it actually something like differentiated in strategy and revenue and economics? As Hyperliquid breaks a $60 billion market cap and is positioned to earn a top 10 spot in the crypto industry, investors are starting to realize how big the perps market actually could be.
Chapter 2: What makes Lighter different from other crypto exchanges?
When you see TradFi FinTwit commentators tweeting about Hyperliquid and the Hyperliquid ETF's stats are pulling in tens to hundreds of millions of dollars of flows, it makes the entire perp sector more interesting and more exciting. But perhaps the number one reason to be excited about perps is that the world's largest capital market still hasn't given them regulatory approval.
Chapter 3: What advantages do ZK rollups offer in trading?
There's no one with a perps license inside the United States because that license doesn't exist yet. So while you may feel like you're late to the growth of offshore perps, the onshore perp game hasn't even started yet. And this isn't just Coinbase, Kraken, or Robinhood competing amongst themselves for U.S. perp market share. Perps... Thank you so much for joining us.
The two guests on the show today think that LIDAR, the ZKL2 on Ethereum, is in prime position to win an outsized share of the United States market, given the eventual regulatory clarity that the United States is going to provide to the perps sector.
Chapter 4: How does Lighter ensure fairness without MEV?
But even outside of the domestic market, the LIT token, the token of LIDAR, is already buying back twice the rate of the token compared to Hyperliquid. And at just a $1 billion valuation compared to Hyperliquid 60, all I want to ask the question, is LIT cheap?
Chapter 5: Why can't Hyperliquid replicate Lighter's model?
I'm here with Flip. He does research at Delphi Digital. Flip, welcome to Bankless. Thank you.
Chapter 6: What is Lighter's strategy for distribution beyond crypto?
Thanks for having me. And I'm also joined by Will Price, a DeFi investor and also an advisor to Leiter. And I think his first podcast in about four years. Will, welcome to Bankless.
Chapter 7: How does latency affect trading flow quality?
Also, both of you guys' first time. Hi, David. I know I tried to record a podcast with you like five years ago and we lost the audio very sadly. That's right. This is my first appearance on Bankless. Right, right. Oh my God, it was about yams, right? Oh my gosh, it was.
Chapter 8: What role do real-world assets play in Lighter's market strategy?
It was about yams. Yeah. We'll let the listener go investigate what yams was if they don't know. They don't know, you don't know. Perfect. Perfect. Okay, guys, I have some questions about Lighter. There has been a ton of attention on Hyperliquid. The hyper business model is well established as working extremely well.
Hyperliquid is just getting known into TradFi circles, Wall Street circles, getting a lot of clout and brand. And there is a lesser known
zk layer two on ethereum that is also doing well in terms of perps that i want to know just a little bit more of and maybe to kind of just start off this question this is a question that i hear asked on crypto twitter and around is the token of lighter is lit is lit just a copycat beta trade to hype or is it actually something like differentiated in strategy and revenue and economics uh maybe flip i'll kind of just throw that one to you to answer to start
Yeah, and I think the short answer there, that's a good question. The short answer is yes, it's different. And I think the first and most obvious is zero fees. And why does that matter? It really affects their distribution strategy and the way in which they onboard new users and sell to existing platforms.
And to expand on that a little bit is if like recently they integrated with Insilico and Insilico is also integrated with Hyperliquid. Well, Hyperliquid has a base builder code fee of 4.5. And in Silico, most OEM assets or an execution management systems charge one bit to their users for those type of orders. And so the total cost for the user is 5.5 bps.
First, if you use LIDAR, which has zero fees for their partner attribution program, which is just builder codes. I know the team would hate me saying that, but it's essentially a builder code. There's zero fees. So in Silico can still charge one BIP, but the trader, you save 4.5, which matters a lot for people who trade volume.
So the way in which they go about their distribution strategy is very different than a hyperliquid. And this also goes into the team's density, the engineering team. They have quite a large engineering team. One of the sharpest teams I've met in crypto and the talent is very much so on par with a lot of the startups you see in AI now.
And their talent density on the engineering side allows them to have a white glove treatment to integrating different partners, like integrating Telegram. Eventually, you know, hopefully they integrate with brokers, the IBKRs of the world, is they have the talent density to go integrate this tech stack for IBKR, where the competitors don't quite have the same resources to go do that.
And nor do they take that approach. It's usually, here's our SDK. If you want to integrate it, please go for it.
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