Entrepreneurship, Healthcare, and Capitalism with Dutch Rojas of Physician Capital, Inc. 2-17-25
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Who is Dutch Rojas and what is his background?
This is Scott Becker with the Becker Private Equity and Business Podcast. I'm thrilled today to be joined by a brilliant and outspoken entrepreneur. He's a healthcare entrepreneur and just a fascinating person. We're joined today by Dutch Rojas. Dutch is going to tell us what he's doing, what trends he's focused on. I love his enthusiasm, his intelligence, and his just embracing of entrepreneurialism and capitalism. Dutch, tell us a bit about yourself and where you're most focused today.
Well, I have to tell you, this is the greatest introduction I've ever had. That was so generous and so kind. I feel like saying all those things back to you. You're the reason I met Hayek, and then you were the reason I met Keith Smith. And so those are two very influential people. One, because I'm very involved with overseas missions, building surgery centers for people that don't have anything. I love that. It's the thing that really makes my heart happy. And then Keith Smith really helped me propel Price Transparency. And so those two things, you were responsible for the introduction of both of those people, so I'm forever grateful.
Take a moment there, because those are two brilliant, interesting people. Andrew Hayek and Keith Smith, and really interesting, very different people, but both entrepreneurial and brilliant. Take a moment, give us 30 seconds on Keith Smith, then maybe 30 seconds on Andrew Hayek, if you don't mind.
Yeah. So Keith Smith's really the father of price transparency. He made it so that not only individuals or consumers could shop and compare prices on an array of healthcare treatments and services, but he also allowed employers to do the first direct contracts. Meaning you have a plan that's a PPO. He allowed you to build a tier one network on top of that. So you had first dollar coverage. And in the age of high deductibles, that was a big deal. And he kind of exposed price discovery, which for me as a capitalist is the number one thing. It's the number one signal I use to determine the value of a good or service. And so – Keith is entirely responsible for starting that movement. I know there were people probably earlier than him, but he took his – I've been to his surgery center many times. He took his surgery center. He took his 214 partners, and he allowed them to do bundled prices, meaning like – anesthesia, facility fee, pro fee, and any other DME, implant fee, put it together as one price and offer that to the community. He does not accept network rates.
He doesn't participate in any carrier rate transactions. And he was the first to do it. He started in 97. I met him around 2008. And one of the first conferences I ever saw him speak at was yours. He was on a Saturday and he was in the main room at the Swiss Hotel. And I still remember there being like seven people in the conference room and I was at the front. And, you know, it was life changing for me. It was absolutely life changing for me that someone would introduce these types of ideas into a place where we are largely dominated by third third party payers. Now, Andrew's a whole – I mean, you had him as a keynote speaker for how many years at Becker's ASC?
No, for a lot of years. And Andrew's a brilliant, brilliant person, a leader. He's ran a number of companies. He was a senior, senior leader at Optum, led Optum for a while. And then he just does a fascinating amount of investing and interesting things. Just a brilliant, brilliant person. But tell the audience a little bit about him.
So I first saw him I think in 2008 or 2009 at the first Becker's conference I ever went to. You introduced me to him, and he was really the first person that took – I'd owned independent ASCs by then. I'd helped develop them, worked with independent physicians around the country. But I think in 2008, I was maybe up to like 27 or 28 ASCs. I'd never been exposed to the – In fact, before I went to your conference, I didn't even know that it was an industry. Back then, doctors would yell at me and say, I can't believe you're an accountant and a business guy. Why are you building these and why are you helping doctors extract money from a system when the money needs to go to the health systems?
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