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Before Breakfast

Finding your purpose, with Tom Rath

29 Apr 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: What is the purpose of Tom Rath's new book, What's the Point?

0.031 - 24.866 Unknown

This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. On paper, the three hosts of the Nick Dick and Paul show are geniuses. We can explain how AI works, data centers, but there are certain things that we don't necessarily understand. Better version of play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Yes. Which, by the way, wasn't Taylor Swift who said that for the first time. I actually, I thought it was.

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24.986 - 27.068 Unknown

I got that wrong. But hey, no one's perfect.

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Chapter 2: How do passion and purpose differ in career choices?

27.128 - 34.257 Unknown

We're pretty close, though. Listen to the Nick Dick and Paul show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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35.333 - 45.822 Laura Vanderkam

Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shankar, a cognitive scientist and host of the podcast, A Slight Change of Plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans.

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46.283 - 65.989 Unknown

I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program.

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66.349 - 73.002 Laura Vanderkam

Listen to A Slight Change of Plans on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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72.982 - 78.129 Unknown

This is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us.

Chapter 3: What questions should we ask to find our purpose in work?

78.57 - 102.364 Unknown

From iHeart Podcasts, Saigon. You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam? One city, a divided country, and the war that tore America apart. This is for Vietnam. They're pouring petrol all over here. Freedom for Vietnam! There's a fire coming to this country and it's going to burn out everything. Listen to Saigon on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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105.668 - 111.968 Unknown

Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good morning.

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Chapter 4: How can we make our jobs feel more like a calling?

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This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's episode will be a slightly longer one, part of the series where I interview fascinating people about how they take their days from great to awesome and any advice they have for the rest of us. So today I am delighted to welcome Tom Rath to Before Breakfast. Tom is the author of the brand new book, What's the Point?

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135.301 - 145.946 Unknown

He is also the author of How Full is Your Bucket and several other books. Thanks so much for having me. Tom, welcome to the show. Yeah, I'm excited to have you on. Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?

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Chapter 5: What strategies can improve daily productivity and focus?

146.648 - 161.998 Tom Rath

Kind of researching and studying what leads to great careers in particular and how work intersects with our individual well-being and health for the last 25 or 30 years and kind of got pulled into the book writing accidentally, but I've always been a researcher at heart.

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162.018 - 175.787 Tom Rath

And I've spent most of my time just waking up and trying to figure out each morning, how can I pull together some research, distill some discoveries that help people to apply things in a real practical way on a day-to-day basis in my books and writing mostly.

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178.079 - 200.55 Unknown

Yeah, which, you know, your new book, What's the Point, is all about practical techniques. But fundamentally, it's about purpose. And I know when a lot of people hear that, you want to set out that there's a difference between sort of like find your passion, which everyone sort of talks about in graduation season here. There's a difference between passion and purpose. What is that?

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200.69 - 210.325 Tom Rath

Find your passion is purpose. relatively misleading advice because it assumes that these things you're really passionate about.

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Chapter 6: How does prioritizing relationships enhance our sense of purpose?

210.345 - 227.854 Tom Rath

When I was a kid growing up, I mean, I was so passionate about basketball and I wish that could have been my life, but my genetics did not have that in the cards. I know a lot of people are passionate about golf, passionate about causes, but that's starting with you and assuming that the rest of the world will just kind of get in line and revolve around who you are.

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227.914 - 233.96 Tom Rath

And if you go into the work world with that orientation, things are going to come crashing down pretty quickly in my experience.

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234 - 251.657 Tom Rath

And so what I've been trying to help people to do is to say, sure, it's good to work on your talents and know who you are and know yourself, but it's probably better to start with what the community around you needs, what the people around you need, what the world needs, and then work back to who you are to make sure that you're

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251.637 - 261.653 Tom Rath

not only having fun each day, but you're making a substantive contribution that improves other people's lives because that usually ends up trumping happiness 5, 10, 20 years down the road.

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264.197 - 273.271 Unknown

And you suggest that we ask ourselves a different question, not what do you do, but that as we think about our careers, it's more who do you help?

273.692 - 284.528 Tom Rath

Can you explore that a little bit for us? We all deserve to and should and need to know who we helped or who's better off because of the work that we did today, not just in some grand sense.

Chapter 7: What role does technology play in our daily lives and relationships?

284.588 - 306.096 Tom Rath

So, you know, and I've spent a lot of time working with people in the professions that I admire most personally, teachers and nurses and hospice workers. And even in those professions and physicians, they're often not very good at ensuring that they connect what they did that day with the way it had a positive impact on another human being and reminding themselves of that. And

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306.076 - 326.651 Tom Rath

We almost have to do that because it's in that reminder that motivates us to get a good night's sleep and to be energized and wound up the next morning and to do even more of it. So you mentioned in the introduction that I know the book's kind of about purpose, but I think when a lot of people, myself included, hear the word purpose, originally it just kind of gave me anxiety.

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326.671 - 347.175 Tom Rath

I'm like, oh my gosh, I need to find this big hairy thing that descends from the heavens someday when it's sunny. But the more I got into the research, and I actually took purpose out of the book's main title because of this. It turns out that purpose is just a practical daily thing that we can use to reorient and reprioritize what we do every hour throughout the day.

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347.235 - 352.35 Tom Rath

And when you do that, it's much more convenient and practical and easier to get your head around.

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Chapter 8: How can we redefine success in our personal and professional lives?

354.76 - 376.973 Unknown

Well, let's talk about that. I mean, you say in your book that, you know, people want to find their calling. And yet, you know, we're in these jobs that exist now, whatever that is. Many of us are not, you know, saving people's lives on a daily basis. So how can we take... a normal job and craft it to feel more like a calling?

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377.054 - 382.961 Unknown

If somebody is listening to this, what are some things they can do over the next day or two to make their job feel more like a calling?

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382.981 - 400.782 Tom Rath

I think a lot of it starts with reprioritizing what you do during the day and kind of your time allocation and figuring out, you know, one of the questions that when I worked at Gallup 15 plus years ago, we always ask was, do you have the opportunity to use your strengths every day? And

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401.167 - 416.188 Tom Rath

The wording of that was pretty important because it's just meaning you get a chance somewhere in a day to use your strengths. None of us get to run around and spend 80% of our day using our strengths and living in that fantasy world. But almost anyone can carve out strengths.

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416.168 - 432.743 Tom Rath

20, 30 minutes, maybe even two hours, where you really feel like you're at your best and you're helping a customer, you're helping a young person to learn and grow, you're mentoring someone, you're putting together content that really is of a quality level that you think can help people, whatever it might be. And a

433.263 - 462.544 Tom Rath

I would recommend to some of your work that people prioritize ensuring that they get to be their best, use their strengths, really serve and contribute to another person as early on as possible in the day, and then maybe later in the day to get to some of the things that are more boring, monotonous, routinized tasks, such as doing your expenses, financials, catching up on email, and all those pieces that honestly are easier to start with in the day because it's kind of low-hanging fruit, but that's the wrong order in most cases.

464.92 - 472.668 Unknown

And if we're really focusing on serving someone, I mean, that doesn't have to be in a broad sense. I mean, you can make your colleague's life better today, correct?

472.688 - 492.868 Tom Rath

Yeah, I mean, just walking into an office and having a conversation with a colleague that picks them up a little bit, even if it's about something social or going on the media, celebrity news, whatever it might be, that is a meaningful contribution. And when people talk to me about the purpose I serve in a given day, I mean, I think the biggest purpose I serve on most days is...

493.338 - 504.217 Tom Rath

putting all my devices away and having a really good conversation with my 17-year-old daughter, my 15-year-old son when they get home in the evening and asking some good questions, keeping my device stowed away and really listening to that.

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