Behind the Bastards
Part Two: From Elliott Rodger to Clavicular: The Story of Incel Evolution
12 Mar 2026
Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Call zone media.
Welcome back to Behind the Bastards, a podcast about incels. Or at least that's what we're talking about this week. The pipeline that led us as a society from Elliot Rodger and the Isla Vista shooting in 2014 to clavicular and the trend of looks maxing, which includes hitting yourself in the face with a hammer to get hotter. We'll be talking about all of that and explaining the rest of it.
But first, let me reintroduce my wonderful guest for these episodes, Kat Abugazela. Kat, welcome to the show. Robert, thank you so much for having me. How you doing, Kat? Are you running for something? A marathon, right? Yeah, there you go, there you go. No, I actually haven't worked out since I launched my congressional campaign, which is what I'm running for.
Chapter 2: What is the historical significance of Elliot Rodger in incel culture?
So anything beyond the flights of stairs it takes to get to my apartment wins me. I'm so weak now, but only physically physically. Mentally and spiritually, we're strong. But yeah, I'm running for Congress in the 9th District of Illinois. So if you are in the Chicago area, that goes from Uptown up to Evanston over to Skokie and then all the way to Crystal Lake in Algonquin.
Election Day is March 17th. You can find my website at catforillinois.com. That's cat with a K. We are a progressive populist campaign. That's the only one in this race supported by majority small dollar donations of the three most viable candidates in this race. I'm the only one that hasn't met with APAC. And I also have an orange cat named Teeter. Yeah.
And if everyone's really good, I'll bring her on camera. You're also the only person we have ever had as a guest for this show who is actively running for office. This being what it is, it's not a thing we normally do, but you have been a friend for quite some time. And before you started running, I've always respected your work as a journalist and as a researcher.
And if anyone's going to be in Congress, I would prefer it be you. Thank you. As we all know, electoralism is the only way to get out of this.
It's the only thing that we do.
Nothing else will fix this. I thought you were going to say the only guest under federal indictment. And then I was like, that can't be true. No, I feel like we've had more than one. Hilarious. We had Chelsea Manning on the show. I mean, she wasn't actively under an indictment. Speaking of indictments. Wow. Actually not.
There's not really much in the way of indictments as a result of incel stuff because they don't tend to get caught before they commit their crimes.
You made me nervous at the beginning because you said Behind the Bastards, a podcast about incels, which is exactly what will get clipped into the Google algorithm when people look up what Behind the Bastards is.
Classic incel podcast. Look, maybe we can, we might be able to de-radicalize them this way. Maybe. No joke. That might work. I've had multiple guys who have jacked off to my video explainers that were like, I was a Nazi and then your words got through to me. Wow. And I was like, you don't need to share that. I guess whatever works. Keep it to yourself, but go off.
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Chapter 3: How did the 2009 PUAHate.com community influence incel ideology?
And so when somebody says something that's like inappropriate, but I don't think. I even give them like benefit of doubt where you're like, hey, I just want you to know I don't think you meant it in this way.
But the wording you used made me and XYZ feel uncomfortable.
I think you should really think about how you're choosing to use words so that you're not coming across this way. And it's like. That's nice. That's normal. That's if somebody said that to me, I've been like, oh, shit, you're right. I didn't fucking mean it that way. My bad. And learn from it.
Chapter 4: What violent incidents are associated with the incel movement?
But so many people, if you say that to them, instead of them being like, oh, shit, they're like, fuck you, bitch.
And it's like crazy. But it's so common. I mean, I think a lot of it as like as someone that was born in 99, like older Gen Z, a lot of it comes from like the complete elimination of third spaces. Like we just don't interact with people anymore. We don't like I wasn't allowed to play in the front yard because my dad was worried I'd get kidnapped, which definitely wasn't going to happen.
And so there's just like all of this distance. And so I spent a lot of my, you know, middle high school time like on the internet, like pre Yahoo Tumblr, I made so many friends there. And for me, the spaces I was in actually opened my eyes to a lot of things that were different from like my conservative upbringing, but it's not the same for others.
And if you end up in these spaces and I'm sure, I know we're going to go into algorithms later, but like algorithms that are geared to make sure that you get into these toxic spaces, then those are the people that are shaping who you are and what you're thinking. If that's the only experience you get, cause you're not doing anything in person anymore.
Yeah.
Yep. Yeah, yeah.
That's very true.
And my God, is it okay to say that you messed up and learn from something and change and work on yourself and evolve? How can you understand stuff like how working out works, right? Which is like you try to do something and it's too hard for you. So you like make changes and build up steps until you can do the thing that you previously couldn't do.
How can you understand that about like lifting weights, but not that like, well, everything kind of works that way? Like, you need to be evaluating yourself and how you are influencing and impacting people and how people are responding to you. And if you're, like, making people uncomfortable or sad or scared, you need to, like, change. Nah, it's the voids. Yeah, I don't get the ā yeah, anyway.
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Chapter 5: What are the implications of incel ideologies on societal perceptions of beauty?
Or maybe you thought they were obnoxious and they actually weren't.
Yeah, or maybe you're just being a dick. Part of why he has trouble making friends or getting a date is that like anytime he sees a woman he finds attractive at school or out in public, he's driven into visible fits of rage. Like this is a guy who is upsetting to be around because you can tell he's like one step away from committing violence anytime he sees a girl with another guy.
He wrote about one time when he went to lunch with his dad and flipped out after seeing a mixed race couple. The sight of them enraged me to no end, especially because it was a dark-skinned Mexican guy dating a hot blonde white girl. I regarded that as a great insult to my dignity.
How could an inferior Mexican guy be able to date a white blonde girl while I was still suffering as a lonely virgin? I was ashamed to be in such an inferior position in front of my father. When I saw the two of them kissing, I could barely contain my rage.
Chapter 6: How does the concept of bone smashing relate to incel beliefs?
I stood up in anger, and I was about to walk up to them and pour my glass of soda all over their heads. I probably would have if father wasn't there. just every red flag there could possibly be. And you see, that's the result of this weird lookism race science stuff. It's like, well, but it's impossible for a blonde girl to love a Mexican man. And I am whiter than he is.
I should be in line before he, like these weird, they've created this system of physics about how relationships work. And the fact that it does not reflect reality at all is part of what drives these people mad. Not in like a clinical sense. I'm being, you know, it's a euphemism, but like that. Yeah. Speaking of Elliot Rogers' dad, probably not. Nope. Here's ads anyway.
That was a failure. Didn't like it.
Kind of like Elliot Rogers' dad.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Why hasn't a woman formally participated in a Formula One race weekend in over a decade? Think about how many skills they have to develop at such a young age. What can we learn from all of the new F1 romance novels suddenly popping up every year? He still smelled of podium champagne and expensive frictions. And how did a 2023 event called Wagageddon change the paddock forever?
That day is just seared into my memory.
I'm culture writer and F1 expert Lily Herman, and these are just a few of the questions I'm tackling on No Grip, a Formula One culture podcast that dives into the underexplored pockets of the sport.
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Chapter 7: How has incel terminology evolved in online communities?
So recently I had the incredible opportunity to have a real conversation with with actress and producer Jamie Lee Curtis ahead of the release of her new thriller series, Scarpetta. I can honestly say I've never done an interview like that before. You know, at one point I shut my laptop down and we just started chatting as old friends, recent Oscar recipient. So we have some commonality there.
I predicted that, by the way.
And you said these words to me, dust off your mantle. Yes. And I looked at you and I said, what? And you said, dust off your mantle. And then I left and that was it. And then when all of that happened, I remember the next morning, I think I wanted to like write you and go, how did you know?
Listen to The Questlove Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Jo Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men.
He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the is-ness of it all. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must listen.
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Chapter 8: What role does looks maxing play in incel culture?
Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
So we're back. As should be obvious from that last quote, his parents are aware that something is wrong. Like his dad sees him like overcome with rage to the point of trying to like physically accost a couple for kissing. But they don't. They also like they're not good parents. They don't spend a lot of time with their kids.
They're certainly not spending a lot of time communicating honestly with Elliot. And in fact, when his dad sees this and is like, oh, my son might be on the verge of doing something crazy and violent. His solution is to give Elliot Rodger a copy of The Secret.
Oh, my God. Great parenting, man.
Incredible stuff.
Yeah.
Now, the core of the secret is what's called the law of attraction. This is the pseudoscientific belief that by thinking and stating your intentions, you can literally make things happen because your thoughts magically shape the nature of reality. Eliot is initially drawn to this idea and immediately declares, I'm going to become a millionaire, quote,
so I could live a luxurious life and finally be able to attract the beautiful girls I covet so much. I wished to make up for the years of youth that I wasted in bleak loneliness. And by doing so, I would get revenge on everyone who thought they were better than me, just by becoming better than them through the accumulation of wealth.
I believe that the only way for me to attain this wealth at the time was to win the lottery, and that is what I visualized doing. I know this isn't the point, but he's such a bad writer. He's such a bad writer, and he's such a just a dummy. I don't want to spend more time on him, but this irrational mindset, this is a very irrational mindset.
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