In this episode, Wouter sits down with Des Traynor, co-founder of Intercom and the mind behind Fin, one of the fastest-growing AI products in SaaS history, approaching $100M in revenue less than three years after launch. Before Fin, Des was a PhD dropout who walked out of university and never came back — not because he failed, but because the opportunity in front of him was too interesting to ignore. That instinct for making painful U-turns became the thread running through everything Intercom has done since. In this conversation, Des talks about why Intercom gave back $50M in revenue on purpose, why most SaaS companies trying to survive AI are taking the path that'll kill them, why most AI products are broken because they shipped on time, and why the alternative to making painful decisions isn't safety, it's a peaceful, long, slow death. If you're building with AI, leading a team through this era, or trying to make high-stakes decisions when nobody knows what's coming next, this one's for you. This episode is presented by Rho, the all-in-one banking platform for startups. Thousands of startups like Perplexity, Product Hunt, and more use Rho. You get everything you need to manage your startup's cash. Exclusively for Biography Pod listeners and viewers, you'll get a $1500 statement credit plus a ton of exclusive perks when you manage your company cash with Rho. To learn more, visit https://rho.co/biography This episode is also presented by AssemblyAI, the leading Speech AI platform. Their API gives developers access to production-ready models for transcription, speaker detection, summarization, and more. If you're building anything with voice or audio data, AssemblyAI is the standard. Check them out at https://www.assemblyai.com/explore/biography-podcast?utm_source=biography&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=credit_grant And by beehiiv, the newsletter platform built for growth. If you're thinking about starting or scaling a newsletter, beehiiv is what the best operators use — including Biography. Get started at https://www.beehiiv.com Follow Wouter: https://x.com/WouterTeunissen Follow Des: https://x.com/destraynor Follow Intercom: https://x.com/intercom Follow Fin: https://x.com/fin_ai Biography Newsletter: https://biography.beehiiv.com/

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“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.

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