Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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European technology regulations remain at the centre of the trade talks between the EU and US as they move to implement their deal reached over the summer. Tomorrow, the European Commission is due to set out changes to its rules on data protection and artificial intelligence. They're meant to ease the regulatory burden and boost competitiveness.
Joining me now in the Brussels Radio studio to discuss is Glenn Fogel, CEO of Booking Holdings, which is the company that owns Booking.com, Priceline, OpenTable and more. Glenn, good morning. Great to see you in Brussels. It's interesting to talk to you because you are one of those companies that is designated as a big platform by the EU for its regulatory purposes.
We often think of perhaps the Googles or the Microsofts of this world, but you are a company that many people will have had interactions with while booking bookings. travel or restaurants as it may have been involved. The European Commission says it wants to simplify its digital rules. Is this something that you're excited about is going to help you to grow your company?
Well, thanks for having me, Stephen. It is an interesting time indeed. And you're right. We are an incredible user of technology. And we also are, of course, regulated by all the new AI rules that are coming into place. And that can be very complex, particularly because we are a very global company. Booking.com is one of the largest travel companies in the world.
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Chapter 2: What are the current challenges of EU tech regulations?
So that right away can be problematic. But certainly the issue of having our competitors who are about the same size, not subjected to the same rules. That can be very disadvantageous. So, for example, I have engineers here in Amsterdam who are doing tremendous great work.
But if they can't get the cutting-edge technology, the stuff that's right out front, because the people who create this, the giant hyperscalers, don't want to bring it to Europe right now because they're concerned about the rules in Europe.
so they're not giving it over to our engineers to be able to do things and play with it and learn, well, that puts us at a big disadvantage to a giant player in the U.S., like Expedia is one of our big competitors, or Airbnb is one of our big competitors, or the Chinese company, Trip.com, their big competitor. They all can get that stuff.
Our engineers may not be able to get it because there's no rule per se, but the issue is that people who create these new technologies are... are concerned about being in sort of a liability issue.
Which companies are afraid then to be selling those products into Europe?
Well, I think every single AI creator always has to be thinking in the back of their head, should I bring this to Europe right now or not? Is this allowed or not? Look, we all saw that. When OpenAI first brought out ChatGPT, you must remember when Italy said, oh, we don't want that right now. Do you remember that? Well, that continues on and on and on.
Where the concern is, as these new technologies are developed, the people creating it look at the EU and they look at the European regulation and they are concerned.
Well, the interesting thing is that we spoke to YouGov recently about a survey they did across nine European countries. Overwhelmingly, the people they spoke to supported regulation of AI, even if that came at a cost of innovation. I wonder in the conversations that you're having with European regulators, how are you putting your points forward to them? And do you feel you're being listened to?
So this is a very complex problem here. We all agree we want to have safe technology. Nobody disagrees with that. And then you come up on the other hand, we don't want to end up far behind other countries and we don't want to end up not having great technology. innovation that helps society too. So it's a balancing issue. The problem is the world is not one set of rules.
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Chapter 3: How does Glenn Fogel view the impact of AI regulations on Booking Holdings?
Our business, the use of technology is huge. We have an incredible number of people working on it all the time. But if the rules are such that we cannot compete, that will be detrimental to the entire European community.
Given this process that's underway, simplification, you know, adapting these digital rules, are you confident that the rules will change?
I'm hopeful. How about that?
Okay. And what are you basing that hope on?
Some people say that your strategy should not be just hope. And that's true. So what we're doing is we're talking with everyone we can in government to make sure they understand the complications. Look, one of the most powerful laws... really, is the law of the unintended consequences.
And when new laws, new rules are put into place, really working people so they understand what the consequences of these rules or laws will be going forward. And I think sometimes there isn't enough thought into that. And I'll give examples right now. We are incredibly disadvantaged by the DMA and the DSA. Now, we are fully in favor of supporting them. We follow all the rules.
We're doing everything. And It's costing us a huge amount, millions and millions and millions of euros that we could be spending on hiring people, technology, building new things. Instead, we're spending it on the regulatory framework. The problem is our competitors who are not subjected by these same rules, even though we are competing for the same customers, they are not.
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Chapter 4: What competitive disadvantages does Booking.com face in Europe?
And that is problematic.
Would you be hiring those people in Europe, though? Because the talent fray in a lot of cases is in the US as well.
So Booking.com was born in Amsterdam, a small thing. We have over 7,000 employees. We are continuing to hire. Look, I would like to hire even more, but the hire more requires the capital to do it and the resources that you want to put in. Instead of putting it into regulations, we would put it into technology, hiring more people. That'd be great.
But look, I recognize the need to have good regulatory frameworks.
I want to ask you a little bit about the technology behind the travel as well, though. We're seeing, of course, you're using AI in the company more and more as well. Are you trusting AI to make your travel plans now already?
You know, there's that old saying of trust but verify. I think that's something everybody should absolutely do. Look, I use a lot of the large language models for myself, my own travel, and we have great things at Booking.com. We have an AI trip planner, which is a great way to use technology to find an easier way to come up with a holiday. I also do check, though.
I do check to make sure everything's exactly right and using other sources. I think people should continue to do that until such time that we really feel everything is at a level that you don't need to do that. I think that's some way down the future.
Are you still sharing travel recommendations with people rather than necessarily directing them to the technology?
Well, we'll continue to give great recommendations. One of the things about AI that really is remarkable is how it comes up with things you may not have thought of before. And look, we go back to the issue of personalization.
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