Chapter 1: What are the reasons behind the current government shutdown?
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You certainly ask interesting questions.
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Joining us now, as we promised, live from Capitol Hill is the U.S. Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson. Welcome back to Bloomberg TV and radio, Mr. Speaker. Been looking forward to the conversation and I appreciate your time this evening.
I'm sure you're having a ball and you don't want this to end anytime soon, but I'm just wondering what your gut check is here and how long you think this is going to go on.
This is a very frustrating exercise for us. It's no fun at all, Joe, and that's because real Americans are feeling real harm because of this. It's political games being played by Democrats in the Senate. There is one reason and one reason alone that they have all just magically changed their tune. I mean, they've done a 180-degree turn from what they have always said and done emphatically.
in keeping the government open. They said as recently as March of this year. We're playing the highlight reel tape outside the speaker's office right now. They all said in their own words, you can't shut the government down. It's too painful. Something changed. What changed was the political calculation.
Chuck Schumer is worried about, as was just said, an attack or a challenge from his left flank. He's afraid that the Marxist wave in New York is going to take him over as well because he represents that state. and so he's got to pick a fight with Trump and show that he's fighting. Well, they picked a fight that has nothing to do with stopgap funding.
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Chapter 2: How does Speaker Johnson view the role of Democrats in the shutdown?
They're trying to short circuit all that right now. That's not how this process works. The Clean CR is so simple, Joe. It's 24 pages in length. It has exactly zero Republican policy writers on it. We made it so simple. We just said, do what you've always done. Let's keep the lights on and keep the appropriations and the negotiation process going.
They refuse to do it because, again, they want to show a fight because they can't stand President Trump. That's what this is. And in the meantime, American people are being used as pawns in this game. And it is so frustrating to us. I think it's shameful. I think it's immoral for them to do what they're doing right now.
Well, I know your position on that. And, you know, we hear about the Schumer shutdown a lot around here. Tom Emmer was with us just a couple of days ago making the point. We've heard this over the past couple of weeks. But what happens if Chuck Schumer doesn't come around for you? What happens if weeks go by, if members of the military are not being paid?
Are there off ramps here for you, Mr. Speaker? Will you start reaching out directly to Democrats? Do we need another meeting in the Oval Office?
Look, I am a good faith operator. I am a negotiator. I like to find common ground. Here's the problem. Because we were operating in good faith and doing the most basic, simple thing, I mean the bare minimum piece of legislation to keep the lights on, I literally don't have anything to negotiate on the CR.
I can't go into that document and say, oh, let me pull off these Republican priorities and see if we can get some more Democrats to vote on it. I don't have anything to pull off of it. I sent over a clean, continued resolution. And by the way, very important, it continues Biden era policies and spending, which we conservatives don't like.
We're trying to change that, but we need the appropriations process to finish it. All we needed was seven more weeks on the clock to finish the process. And the Republicans and Democrats who are appropriators are the ones that decided that date and decided it should be clean. And everything was going smoothly until Chuck Schumer decided to blow it up. Is he going to fold?
I don't know, but I'll tell you what needs to happen. Some other Senate Democrats need to come to their senses and realize they should not be blamed for the pain that's being inflicted on the people. Make it stop as soon as possible. Do the right thing and join your Republican colleagues and open the government back up.
That's why I ask if you're reaching out to some of the Democratic senators. Mr. Speaker, have you talked to Chuck Schumer since your Oval Office meeting?
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Chapter 3: What is the significance of the Obamacare subsidies in the shutdown debate?
Well, of course, there's a threat of mass layoffs coming from the president. He said maybe four or five days he would make a decision on that. But there's also been a conversation, and I heard you speaking earlier in your briefing, about back pay for federal workers who have been furloughed. There's, of course, a law in the books around furloughed workers getting back pay today.
And I know that you have been speaking to the letter of the law. The president yesterday said, though, that there are some federal workers who do not deserve, the quote was, to be taken care of. Is this issue the purview of Congress? Do you plan to follow this law, or is this somehow up to Russ' vote now?
Well, look, there's different legal analyses that are floating around right now, and I've been so busy with this, I haven't had a chance to dig into it. I am a lawyer, I'm looking forward to reading through that, because I kind of get into all the scholarship side of this.
It has always been my understanding that the law requires furloughed workers to receive back pay, and of course that's been the tradition. And I'm not sure exactly what the president is referring to there. I haven't had a chance to talk to him about that specific issue yet. But we will. I can tell you this, though.
The view of the White House, the view of the president himself, is that he doesn't want federal workers to be used as pawns here. We've got some great patriotic Americans who work for our agencies and provide essential services to the people. They should not suffer the harms of people who want to play political games. And I think that's a really important principle for us to advance.
Do you worry about mass layoffs coming as early as next week and that actually poisoning the well even more between Republicans and Democrats? What would be the impact of a move like that?
Well, look, I'm worried about all sorts of adverse effects because of how it affects the American people. We had some analysis today that every week that the Democrat shutdown continues, we could lose $15 billion in gross domestic product. I mean, it's a real hit for real people, and it has a reverberating effect. And if you keep it closed for a month...
then one of the estimates I saw today is you lose 43,000 civilian employees, you know, because it has a ripple effect throughout the economy. We can't afford to do that right now. Things were going in the right direction, and this is a terrible setback for the country. It also has implications for national security. I mean, you look at things like nuclear deterrence.
Those programs are stalled right now, right? And every day you do that, it has real-world consequences for us. Not a game, and we need to end it right now.
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Chapter 4: What are the potential impacts of the government shutdown on federal workers?
I authored the Honor and Civility Caucus Pledge and the Commitment to Civility. I mean, we have to maintain this. There are fights about policy, but it shouldn't be personal. I try to model that myself. I try to encourage colleagues to do it. But I will tell you, the tension here is very high. Because it's high because the stakes are so high.
And you've got real Americans, real constituents back home who are really suffering because of the nonsense. And it gets us upset here sometimes. I understand that emotion. We've got to keep it in check. We've got to get everybody working together. And we've got to get the lights back on.
I want to ask you about that new member, Grijalva, the congresswoman-elect from Arizona. The senators were asking you to swear her in, or I guess they were urging you to swear her in, which I know you've done a couple of times for Republican members in pro forma sessions. These two senators were yelling about Jeffrey Epstein, I think, to make a point here, and they did get some coverage on that.
Mr. Speaker, is this an Epstein issue or is this a process issue?
They're masters at distraction. And go back and watch the video of Senator Ruben Gallego. These are the two Democrat senators from Arizona, Mark Kelly and Gallego. And they're voting to keep the government closed. I told them, if you want to get your house colleague from your state take the oath of office, then open the government so we can get back to regular session.
They claim everything's about Epstein. It's a joke. Masters of distraction. We did ā this is a longstanding tradition in the Congress. When you administer the oath after a special election, you do it the first time that the Congress is back in session after that. We did change that, modify it earlier this year on one occasion. We had two Floridians who came in on the same special election.
But it was a very different set of circumstances. I explained to them very quickly, we had a scheduled date for the office ceremony. The House went out of session unexpectedly. They already had their family and friends here, and it was already prearranged. So we just went ahead and went through the motion. We're going to rep elect Grijalva.
We'll be sworn in as soon as we get back to regular session. She never had a scheduled date because she got elected after the House went out of session. This is real simple. We're going to do that as soon as we get back. But they are in charge of turning the lights on so Congress can get back to work.
Well, I appreciate your answering that for us, Mr. Speaker. Lastly, if you were to join me, say, next Wednesday, would we be having the same conversation about a shutdown?
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