When Justice Becomes a Weapon: DOJ, Politics, and the Constitution
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What is the premise of the episode and who are the hosts and guest?
Welcome to How Our Constitution Works and Why It Doesn't. I'm your host, William Cooper, and with me as always my co-host. Ed Larson. We are delighted to have Lori Levinson here today and we're gonna talk about the very broad umbrella description of weaponizing the DOJ, a prominent topic in political circles for about a decade now, and not that it wasn't important or on people's radar before then, but I think particularly heightened interest and activity there in the last decade or so. And as always, Ed does a great job putting these issues into the context of our show and how the Constitution works and How it doesn't. So Ed, why don't you give us sense of how you'd like to perceive?
Well first I'd like to welcome our guest. She is great. Uh and on this topic I I think she hung the moon. Can't think of any better one to talk about it, and how I think it fits into the program. Is what we've been doing is we sort of have two sides. On one hand, we're sort of like a little civics lesson. And I used to know J Justice O'Connor and she was big on civics education. And people had understood and she had this vision of people understanding how the Constitution works. And that's a noble, noble goal, and I hope we advance it. But also I think many people, it doesn't matter your partisan leadings, right, middle or center, thinks the Constitution just isn't working today. Because it's out of date mainly, probably.
I mean it was written for a country that was an agrarian country that had less people than the the city of Los Angeles, less people than Oklahoma. And have today. And with different issues and different concerns. Not a world power, one without AI, one without Much modern science. E expert agencies. And one concern people had right from the beginning was that there was just too much p power. We can h read that in so many of the anti federalists. That there was just too much power that this central government would have power, including things like to weaponize the Department of Justice. Now there wasn't much of a Department of Justice back then, and there wasn't much division of it and the f Central Government didn't have much power.
They called it the general government. They never called America a nation. Never. Never in the Constitution. Never in Uh uh not among the other not among the delegates. So now there's this major issue that we have this enormous federal government with tentacles reaching throughout, FBI created in about a hundred years ago with powers and now ICE with all these powers. And so the question comes up is is this an example of the way the constitution just doesn't work? Or if it does Is not the way we might want it to. I think it's a complaint people have. So given that, given that it's not really discussed in the Constitution all that much, and given the enormous powers of surveillance and prosecution that exists now.
We just wanna ask uh for many people I think that the weaponization of the Justice Department is one example of how the constitution just isn't providing the guardrails we need today. So With that long wind up, I toss the ball to a person who can hit it out of the court.
I'll add that's an amazingly large ball that you're throwing at me and I'll try to bat it back. But here's the situation. I think you're right. The system of government we have right now I don't think was even contemplated at the time of the constitution. And what we have is a lot of power in the executive branch and people have been advocating for that. But that just doesn't mean the president's power. That means the people who are working for him as well. And that's the Justice Department. And when it comes to power, the ultimate power is to bring criminal charges against people. And once you do that, it's very difficult to defend yourself. Now I want you to layer on that the intentional, I think, politicization of the Justice Department.
When you say that you're going to go on a retribution tour by bringing criminal charges against your enemies. That I don't think is what people envisioned the Justice Department would be used for.
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Chapters
6 chapters
1
What is the premise of the episode and who are the hosts and guest?
0:00–11:33
2
How did early American anti‑federalist concerns view the power of the Justice Department?
11:33–17:01
3
What does “weaponizing the DOJ” mean and why has it become a hot topic in the last decade?
17:01–21:38
4
How does the balance of power between the President and the DOJ affect prosecutorial independence?
21:38–27:44
5
What constitutional checks exist—or fail to exist—on presidential immunity and DOJ actions?
27:44–34:49
6
How do juries and grand juries serve as (or fail as) safeguards against political prosecutions?
34:49–39:17