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Chapter 1: What inspired Elizabeth Strout's latest novel, 'The Things We Never Say'?
Elizabeth Strout won the Pulitzer Prize for her much-loved novel Olive Kitteridge and she inspires fanatical devotion among her readers in Ireland, I know, and around the world. Her new book is called The Things We Never Say and it's a great book and I'm not just saying that because she's sitting across from me. Welcome back to the show, Elizabeth. How are you?
Very nice to be here. Thank you so much.
And it's nice to have you here in person this time. You're here, I think, among other things for the Burris Festival of Writing and Ideas and to see us, of course. Do you like visiting Ireland?
I love Ireland. I've always loved Ireland. I came here when I was 18 years old for the first time and I just thought it was amazing. It's so beautiful.
Yeah. What resonates here with you?
Well, first of all, the beauty of it and also the people are just great. I just have a real fondness for Ireland.
OK, you're doing well so far. So the new book is called The Things We Never Say. And I would say it's another kind of quiet depth charge of a book, right? Because I had read it a few weeks ago and it was only when I was kind of re-engaging, thinking about it again, that I realised I've been a bit unsettled.
since I read it in a good way I think like that I'm probably I'm the main character's age and everything and it just does and I realise I've been a bit outside myself since kind of looking at myself that's interesting right so tell us a bit about it
Well, I don't know if I can—I guess I'm not going to give away any spoilers, right? No, don't. That's why I'm letting you do the summarizing. Okay, well, it's a little hard to talk without giving out, so I'm not going to. But it's about a 57-year-old high school teacher of history, and he's been a wonderful teacher.
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Chapter 2: How does Elizabeth Strout define loneliness in marriage?
Loneliness does not come from having no people about one, but from being unable to communicate the things that seem important to oneself or from holding certain views which others find inadmissible. Why did that strike a chord with you?
Because I found that about sort of halfway through the book, I'd been reading a biography of Carl Jung. Otherwise, I know nothing about him, but I find his biography to be really interesting. And I found that quote, and I thought, wait a minute, this is actually exactly what I'm trying to say in this book. So I think maybe I'll stick it at the beginning.
Yeah.
Because Artie does have friends, and he does. But it's also about not being able to say the things that others would find inadmissible. You know, it summed it up rather well, I thought.
If you have that one friend that you can say the worst things to.
Yes. then you're saved.
You are, aren't you? Do you have that?
Yes, I do.
Is it your husband?
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Chapter 3: What themes of loneliness are explored in the book?
But I'm sort of used to that now. I realize, oh, well, OK.
Yeah. And in a marriage as well, then, in one way, you want to know the person completely. And after many years, you do feel you know each other, you take it for granted. But actually, sometimes you go, oh. Exactly. It's so funny. And it's great, isn't it?
It's so fabulous. It's just like you go, oh, I didn't know that was you. Oh, OK.
I think you think part of the... Of the cure, maybe, for all this separateness we're talking about is those moments of connection, etc. I think moments of grace, you call them. Explain what you mean by those moments of grace.
Because that's what I'm always looking for. And that means moments of connection, of genuine human connection with another person. And that's really all it takes for one to feel... OK, you know, like I'm OK for a moment. You know, they have these these connections and they can come in many different forms. And Artie and his son have a tremendous connection ultimately. And and so does Kenneth.
He has a lovely friendship with Kenneth Moynihan, who, you know, ended up saving his life there.
Yeah. So is that what we're all craving, you think?
Yeah.
I think so, yeah. It really doesn't take much.
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Chapter 4: How does Carl Jung's quote relate to the theme of communication?
Yes.
Artie realizes at a point, I'm not giving anything away here, that he's, that guy's a Trump supporter and they just never talk about it.
And they just don't talk about it. Yeah. Precisely.
So do you have, you're obviously not a Trump supporter. Do you have friends who are?
I have a very, very old friend and we've known each other for years and we really love each other and we just never discuss it. Ever.
Okay. And do you think it's at a point where it is making people not be able to be friends with people?
Well, I think, I mean, like, I'm not going to give up that friendship. I hope he's not going to. Yeah. I do think that... I see families that are divided over this. You know, there are certain family members versus other family members. That's not true in my family, but that's just by the luck. So I... Yeah, I think that... And everyone has to pick a side, do they?
Are we at that point?
Well, yes, I think so. You have to pick a side, but keep quiet about it.
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Chapter 5: What moments of grace does Elizabeth Strout mention?
And have you thought anything interesting about them? Because we talked about your parents a little bit the last time. You come from quite... puritanical, kind of Calvinist. I've seen you say your parents had a sceptical view of pleasure.
Yes, they did. What did that look like? It meant that we were to work hard. That was the main thing I got from it, which is a wonderful thing to get because, you know, I do work hard. But you were to work hard so that you could go to bed and get up and work hard again. I mean, food wasn't to be
especially enjoyed you just ate it so that you could wake up again and work hard okay um we we had no television because they didn't believe in it which actually i think worked out for me as a writer but um no movies no popular culture came into our lives did you manage to break the cycle of the kind of being down on pleasure and enjoying food and all that kind of stuff
Well, my daughter certainly. She broke the mold. It takes two generations to really do it. She knows all about food and movies and pleasure and bless her heart.
So you're the transitional generation.
I think so, yes.
You're still a little bit.
Yes, I'm a little bit both ways. I've still got one leg in the main thing. But she's full force onward. Okay, so you did break the cycle.
I did. Do you disapprove slightly sometimes still? Is there a part of you looks at her enjoying her life and goes, that'll end badly?
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Chapter 6: How has the pandemic influenced social interactions?
I won't use the word sprightly, but you do seem like, you know, there may be any old person who's not like hobbling around and say, you're there sprightly. You're certainly sprightly.
Well, thank you.
We were at my nephew's wedding a few years ago and all the young people were being really lovely to our table. And we were like, these are such lovely young people. All their friends and everything were so solicitous to us. And it slowly dawned on us what was going on. We were the old people we needed to be looked after. But sure, look, we lean into it.
Yeah, exactly. What can you do?
So you say there may only be one more novel.
Yeah. Can you imagine stopping? No, I don't think I'll stop as long as I'm living. I just don't think I'll stop.
Okay, so do you have to kind of say one more each time?
Yeah, just because I'm so Puritan Maine, I can't give myself the pleasure of thinking that I might live for 20 more years. No, we're not going to do that.
What would you do if you weren't doing it?
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