Chapter 1: What is the background of the Bessborough Mother and Baby Home?
The Clare Byrne Show on Newstalk. With Aviva Insurance.
When my mother came down here in 1994 to ask questions about what happened to her baby, she had rang her head and because of that phone call they made an inquiry to St Finbar's Hospital where he died and the nun took my mum down to the graveyard here and told her that her baby was buried there. She actually tapped her foot on the spot, your baby is buried here.
At that time, my mum said, well, can I put a plaque there for him? She was refused. And then years later, when the commission of inquiry was going on, we were reading the burials report and found my mum's anonymised story and the details of baby William being buried in Carr's Hill Cemetery. That information also said that the baby was in St Finn Bars in the morgue for 11 days.
They have found baby William's grave now?
Well, no, we've been up to Cars Hill and what we've discovered is that it's a farming pauper's graveyard and there's about 30,000 people buried there and there's not one marker for any of them. So the trouble is there's no corroborating graveyard records, so still we wonder, did he actually make it up there? But now on his anniversary and his birthday, we visit both places.
Carmel Cantwell is a campaigner with the Bessborough Mother and Baby Home Support Group. Carmel's mother, Madeleine Walsh, was sent to Bessborough when she was pregnant in 1960. Today, Carmel is now appealing against a proposed development on the site.
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Chapter 2: How do survivors feel about the proposed development on the site?
How does the granting of the planning permission affect survivors and families such as yourself?
Oh, well, I've had huge feedback. I mean, there's really a lot of upset out there. This is the last remaining 60 acres, which envelops the house and the buildings. And what we're saying is that all of that should be preserved. There should also be some investigation done as well. There are definitely some areas suspected of burials. But yeah, this is a site of trauma.
It should be a site of national trauma. It's the place my mum saw her baby alive. And that That goes for a lot of mothers and children that were separated through forced adoption as well.
I believe there's an instruction to carry out archaeological excavations as part of the development. Would this not be some way of bringing campaigners the answers they're looking for?
I think that would only complicate matters.
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Chapter 3: What concerns do residents have regarding the new apartments?
I think it should be independently done beforehand to see what's there. It shouldn't be done by the developers as a means to an end to get their development done.
Planning permission was granted for 140 apartments and with such a demand for housing, I wanted to find out what those living nearby think of the proposed development.
It should be left alone. It means so much to different people. I would say you're better off to leave well alone. There's a lot of places for apartments to go in around Cork. They're not limited on space, in my opinion, I don't think. But I think have a small memorial for the place because it shouldn't be built over, I don't think. There's a lot of history there.
A lot of people went through hard stuff there. So maybe don't try and just remove that from history. Sweep it under the carpet, literally. They should investigate it anyway, you know, just to see what's there and what's not there, you know. Would you be open to development in the area?
Chapter 4: What historical significance does the Bessborough site hold?
Well, like everything, you know, you can't stance the leader, you know. Things have to kind of progress some bit anyway, you know. But they should put something there as well for people. Should the housing go ahead or should it be left alone?
Absolutely not. So, no, they shouldn't be building houses on it.
There should be some sort of a memorial to the people that have passed through there, you know? You know, no houses. I think there's enough houses down there. Just leave it as it is, you know, because of everything that went on there. Because of the history attached to the place, that it's better to leave it as it is and build apartments elsewhere.
Support for the development from people on the streets near Bessborough is rare. Labour councillor Peter Horgan has lodged an appeal against the development and believes the lands should be CPO'd.
It's an area where I feel it should not simply be built on and after I was elected to Cork City Council in June 2024 I submitted a motion that the council would begin the process of CPOing the site with government. That process was delayed for legal reasons because there was live planning permission on the site
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Chapter 5: How is the planning permission affecting local community sentiments?
When the last planning permission was rejected, that motion went straight to the Council floor and passed unanimously across party. I'm very conscious that this shouldn't be used as a political party punching bag because this is too important an issue to use for just regular politics.
As a local public representative, I'm sure many constituents come to you with housing needs. Can it be difficult then or can it be contradictory to object then to a development?
Absolutely not. Not in this case. Yes, in other cases, yes. But on this case, it's a site of national conscience. It's a site of local heartache and history. And we have not been found wanting for providing housing in the Bessborough area.
This whole area of Baysborough Road is likely to de-industrialise in the next number of years, and housing is where you will see those industries leave, you'll see housing go on those sites. But on this particular site, it's too wrapped up in history, it's too wrapped up with emotions, and it's fraught with... the memories of the past for it to be built on simply as apartments.
I don't think there's any contradiction.
And some survivors indeed there's a motion with the council as well to establish a memorial here, maybe a shrine but they're not fully against the development.
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Chapter 6: What are the arguments for preserving the site versus developing it?
Is there a balance that can be struck? That motion came from the county and I spoke with the mayor of the county in the aftermath. I talked with other members of the county in the aftermath of that and I think there was a reluctance to do a full CPO because it was the subject of life planning permission still. That's my assessment of it.
But the balance, in my view, is do not build and have this area as a public park and have that public park as a memorial. When you own the land, and the survivors are split in this, I understand, and there's no one voice representing everyone because it can't. If you own the land, you could have a multitude of different memorials in there.
The impact of Ireland's dark history of mother and baby homes is still very much being felt today. A decision on the appeals against the development of apartments is due on the 9th of July and Carmel Cantwell says she will not give up campaigning against it.
Please help us. I mean, we've asked everybody. You know, my argument is that there are 859 Irish citizens missing and I think they have a duty to help us find them.
Carmel Cantwell from the Bessborough Mother and Baby Home Support Group. And Josh did try to contact the developer behind the proposed apartments and he is still waiting for a response.
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Chapter 7: What actions are being taken to appeal the development decision?
The Clare Byrne Show. With Aviva Insurance. Weekday mornings at 9. On Newstalk. Conversation that counts.