Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
The Clare Byrne Show. With Aviva Insurance.
Weekday mornings at 9. On Newstalk. Conversation that counts.
Let's go into the debrief if we can. I'm joined in studio here at the Republic of Work by Ralph Regal of the Irish Independent and Esther McCarthy of the Irish Examiner. You're very welcome both. Thank you very much for joining us. We're going to begin. Clare had this interview earlier in the week with this Metropolitan Police Detective, Peter Bleaksley.
He was talking about a staggering lack of discipline that young people have growing up. And Ralph, his suggestion was that he would bring back the borstal.
Chapter 2: What interview sparked the discussion about youth discipline?
Yes, and I think you have to consider his argument against the backdrop of what's actually happening in the UK. So you've got a significant increase in youth employment, unemployment, young unemployment.
Staggering figures, this guy.
Three in ten have a job. Yeah, you have a significant increase in violence within various categories in youth areas. And they have an awful case at the moment that has sparked this whole thing about, you know, punishment versus rehabilitation and the debate. A couple of teenage boys received a non-custodial sentence for two different rapes.
in England, and it sparked an outcry from the families, obviously, of the victims, but also from politicians about youth justice. And as someone who spends a lot of his time in the courts, I mean, both the district court, the circuit court, central criminal court. I mean, there's a lot of arguments there about our victims rights and big justice for victims.
Is it really given the weight in society as opposed to the rights of the victim and rehabilitation? the cost of custodial sentences. And it's an ongoing debate. We're not alone in that in Ireland. I mean, you have it in the UK, you have it in the United States.
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Chapter 3: What are the statistics on youth unemployment and violence?
Certainly, there does seem to be a lack of respect, a lack of discipline, a lack of... understanding of a person's role in society so certainly there's a major educational challenge there but I think it's fair to say that the pendulum has gone from extreme impunishment like you know executing people for stealing an apple 200 years ago to the point now where
You know, maybe there needs to be a greater focus on the punishment side of justice.
And Esther, one of the things that does annoy me is you will hear a report from a court of some young lad, because inevitably it is a young lad, who has done something egregious. Hmm.
terrible that has resulted in an appearance before the court and we hear reference to the mystical Garda youth diversion programme as if they're you know standing on the end of the street to send them left as opposed to right and that is supposed to be based in rehabilitation and everything that's with it you know
There are times when even liberal old me would go, he needs to be sent to a bar still. But we don't want to do that here, do we?
No, like my blood ran cold when I read this. I mean, we've seen what institutional abuse can do in this country. You know, Andrew was talking about sunscreen. I think it's like trying to put sunscreen on a sunburned like put the efforts in before it actually happens, put it into education, put it into youth clubs. There's nowhere for them to go.
I'm not obviously talking about horrendous court case in England.
Yeah, but Borstal, everybody got sent to Borstal. That doesn't, like, you know, the rate of sending them to places like that was very, very high. I mean, there's a hint of this being a little bit like a lot of things in Britain at the moment. It used to be better in the Victorian times. And it wasn't, yeah. Oliver turned out all right in the end.
Like what he's arguing for the structure, you know, physical activity, learning a trade, like all these things, of course, but don't wait until they're so far through the system that it's no good. Do that when they need it.
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Chapter 4: How does the justice system address youth crimes?
And it has worked. Other countries have shown that if you invest in sport, in art, in education, in trying to break the cycle of disadvantage, you'll win the battle against crime.
Let's talk about the World Cup. I have never known there to be as little interest in a major sporting event as there is in the upcoming World Cup. FIFA are to be investigated over ticketing. Who would have thought it that in Trump's America, they would try to overcharge people to attend matches, Esther? I, for one, am shocked.
Isn't it absolutely amazing? My jaw dropped. Like... I've heard of people, you know, their life savings being spent to try to get over to this, that the dynamic pricing baloney has just been used as an excuse.
I think they may have underestimated the interest levels of football fans.
In America. do you know what I mean like it's just ridiculous and there's going to and it will actually be you can't hide the fact that there's going to be no one in the stadiums for the lesser you know known you know some games won't have the excitement that Argentina will have or Holland or whatever so
like they're going people can't afford to go and you know maybe at the end we'll get a hand to God moment or we'll get a moment where we'll all get excited again but up and I just have no interest the fact that it's in America sickens me anyway I wouldn't go if you paid me to go over there but it's not just like the Americans are really trying it on Ralph it's happening in Canada and Mexico where they're less inclined to try it on but the one that did it for me not the tickets to the stadium but the tickets to Giant Stadium which I know you are very familiar with the train MetLife Stadium the MetLife Stadium in New Jersey yeah
They were charging people four times what it normally would cost. You cannot walk to the stadium despite the fact that here it would be a 30 minute walk, whereas over there I think it's about two hours and you're kind of taking your life in your hands. These guys, all they see is dollar signs. It's everything that's wrong with America in sporting form.
Yeah, and FIFA itself, because I think, you know, the consequences of this is you have arguably, I mean, it ranks alongside the Olympic Games as one of the great sporting showcases every four years. I mean, this should be a celebration of all that's good about football. I mean, I have a sister who lives in Florida and she has two boys. They're both huge football fans.
They're big fans of Inter-Miami. And the hero worship, Lionel Messi, who, of course, plays for Inter Miami. Not a hope of a ticket. Not a hope. I think she was talking about $600 to $800 for one youth subsidized ticket.
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Chapter 5: What arguments exist for and against rehabilitation in youth justice?
That's a subsidized ticket. And if you look at New York, New York and New Jersey are after launching a formal investigation into ticketing, into the pricing structures, into people getting different types of tickets than the ones that they thought they had paid for. Then you have the whole hotel thing that there was a vast amount of hotels block booked by FIFA.
And they're now releasing an awful lot of those hotel rooms because there's no demand for them. So it's very sad. I mean, I'm a big football fan and I look at this and if you talk to Irish people, some of their greatest sporting memories might be. Oh, Italian 90. Italian 90. USA 94. USA 94. And we would have given. Saipan. It would have meant Saipan.
Don't mention that.
I was at Cork Airport. Yeah. I finished a long by-election count in Cork and went straight to the airport for 10 days waiting for a certain footballer to fly back to Cork who didn't fly back to Cork.
Yeah, it is. I would have said definitely Qatar has to have been the pinnacle of FIFA nonsense. It doesn't get madder than this.
they plumbed a lower deck they've managed to do it and do you remember with Qatar we were all outraged about the construction workers and how they're being killed and then it just petered off and I think that's what they're hoping will happen here I don't think it will I don't think it will either but I think they think once the ball is kicked in once the first touch is taken we'd all get swept up in the fever
But I don't think so.
It does depend bizarrely on what actually happens in the tournament because most people will remember Qatar as one of the most exciting World Cups in history with arguably one of the greatest World Cup finals ever. So that's kind of what people focus on. But it's going to be very sad.
I mean, you'll probably see a lot of the television coverage where people are instructed not to focus on empty stands and the large banks of empty seats because... Where have we seen that before in America?
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Chapter 6: What is the current state of youth justice in Ireland and the UK?
I mean, I went with a buddy and we still laugh and talk about it. That was 1990. So like you're talking 36 years ago. Would I go again? Probably not, unless it was something very specific. Like I would do a group tour for some of the specialised things that I'm interested in. Like I might do, you know, the battlefields or... Don't forget the words as originals when you... Yes.
That's the Zimmer frame. So I would do those, but I tend to be a bit of a loner or else family holidays. But I respect people who go on them. And again, if you're on your own and that's the only holiday you could go on,
Well, yeah, that's fine. But there's a lot of that now, Esther, that people maybe who, you know, they might be widowed or they might be divorced or their kids are growing up and they will go on these holidays where they won't know people. Yeah. And all of a sudden they're making friends. Yeah, but what happens if you meet someone you hate?
I know.
You stay away from them and find someone else. You can't escape someone on a bus.
You're thinking worst case scenario, lads. I am catastrophizing here. Let's do the whole meeting new people with probably common interests. Because you're probably going hiking or you're going to see temples or something. But like the group holiday is great crack. Like some of the best times I've ever had is when a big group of girls over in some cheap resort to a cheap...
Drink and, you know, I'll bring for the best.
Would you not kind of get to the point where going, look, I really like Esther. She's a lovely, but if she talks to me again about her cat, I'll just, I'll be dug out. Is that just me? Yeah, I think that is.
I think the whole point we go on group holidays is to leave our cat and our kids and our work and everything else behind and just go bats and just don't get a room with the person who snores and you'll be great. And what has really... I'm going to Centre Park soon with a group.
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