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Chapter 1: What are the biggest stories covered in this week's debrief?
The Clare Byrne Show on Newstalk with Aviva Insurance.
Now it's time to take a look back with the debrief on some of the biggest stories of the week and joining me in the studio, Managing Editor of the Journal Media, Susan Daly is here, Media Lecturer at TU Dublin and host of The Ditch podcast, Harry Brown and political correspondent with the Irish Examiner, Louise Byrne. You're also welcome to the show. Thanks for coming in.
We want to start this week with a story we covered on the programme. We heard that there are some councillors in Kerry who want the nationalities of people provided with social housing to be published. Now, they say this is to counter persistent online rumours that non-nationals are getting homes before Irish-born people.
Susan, I'll start with you because you can understand the frustration of the councillors that they feel they don't have the information to counteract those rumours. But will there be unintended consequences if that information is published, do you think?
Absolutely, because you can't predict what the outcomes are going to be. So if you're going, I'm trying to support, you know, combating a narrative that's out there. But in fact, there is an indication in the in the narrative that or in the figures that, yes, has been a leap in, you know, non-nationals gaining social housing to a proportion that people weren't expecting.
Are you prepared for what the consequence of that is, you know? And then there's been talk about what's, you know, is there another motive about wanting this kind of transparency on data? I think the key thing here is, and interesting, if you go to the CSO website, they have what's quite a famous philosophy about data on there. And it's published the statistics protect the individuals.
And I think that's where the decision would have to be made here is like it can be useful. And like social housing is a public service funded by taxpayers. Aggregate statistics can be really useful in policymaking, deciding, look, what schools we need. We need more Catholic schools. We need non-denomination because there's a growth in population in that or whatever.
So they can be used in that way.
But if you break those figures down into individual councils, you risk people. Putting people in a vulnerable situation.
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Chapter 2: Why do some councillors want to publish the nationalities of social housing applicants?
Or weaponised.
But it is interesting, Louise, isn't it? The politicians are pushing for this information because they feel that they're being put under pressure by their constituents who are saying these things. A lot of it is happening online.
Yeah, and I think it's quite indicative of where we are as a society right now because this is the immigration question or the question of non-nationals living here is quite a hot topic. But, you know, for something like social housing, you have to have the right to reside here long term. to access social housing.
And I mean, it means that if people have come through direct provision, have been given leave to remain here, it means that they have the right to get social housing. And it's not as if people are arriving off the plane or arriving off the boat as often the rumour goes and straight into social housing.
But I think the crux of the issue here is that we don't have enough social homes in this country. The government consistently for the last number of years has missed its total social housing requirement. target. And that is the issue.
And I mean, rather than stoke up the flames and stoke up, you know, that feeling of animosity, I think, that people could potentially feel if they are on the housing list.
And like Susan said, someone who could have lived here for decades, but just so happened to be born in another country, they could be just as entitled to a social home as, you know, the next person down the list who was born and raised in Ireland.
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Chapter 3: What are the potential consequences of disclosing nationality data in housing?
So you're getting into very, I This can't detract away from the fact the government is not fulfilling its obligations to build social. Yeah.
And I see what you're saying. That is at the root of all of this. But, Harry, the councillors are saying, if I had this information, I would be able to disprove these false rumours that are circulating on social media, that there are people who are not born in Ireland who are getting the social houses ahead of Irish people.
Well, would they, though? I mean, that is the question. You know, what would be the threshold for disproof of this? What would be the number that would be satisfying to kind of this really diversionary narrative about housing that circulates online? The fact is we're a republic. The fact is that anyone who's entitled to be here is also entitled to social services here.
The fact is that for a non-national to get on the housing list, the qualifications are, for the most part, pretty close to what the qualifications for citizenship are. Then not everyone who meets the qualifications for citizenship necessarily takes it up. But, you know, you have to be here a pretty long time. You have to have leave to remain if you've come through the asylum system.
As Louise says, the problems in the housing system are to do with the lack of construction of social housing are also to do with pressures on the market that really don't have to do.
with immigration if you like at the of the poorest people who would qualify for housing it has to do with pressures uh caused by vulture landlords from multinational companies it's pressures caused by the migration of well-off people who drive up rents in our cities so it is it does it seems to me i understand where this narrative is coming from but you know it's the wrong place you're
addressing the wrong problem. Can I say there's actually a solution in both what Louise and Harry are saying there is that what the councillors are saying that they're trying to provide is transparency. They're saying transparency will calm and build trust. And the transparency needed is not necessarily like here's data everybody interpreted for themselves.
As you say, Harry, what's the threshold that will make people happy who are already feeding into a particular narrative? But there is transparency on processes, which is in order to get X, Y and Z, you have to meet these criteria. If it makes really, really clear what those processes are, like something like, you know, citizen information is an amazing resource.
They actually are brilliant at speaking directly. I think just get the person who writes the citizensinformation.ie website on and get them to write a primer on who's entitled to what. is, you know, that's the kind of transparency that's useful. What we're seeing here maybe is a little bit of a panicked, knee-jerk reaction to people are asking for this. I need to give it, like, calm second.
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Chapter 4: How does immigration impact social housing eligibility in Ireland?
Just giving stats on their own is actually going to either cause more panic, feed into a misinformation narrative that's already there, just not solve the issue. People want to pass
book on it they're terrified and people want really quick answers you know they don't want that level of detail they just want to know am I right here or do they care whether they're right or not when it comes to rumours on social media and should you ever try to address them is there any data point that will change people's minds exactly
And the answer to that is, generally speaking, kind of no. And certainly in something like this where the data could be interpreted ambiguously, where there are different kinds of rules and thresholds, I think it's highly unlikely that this transparency would somehow result in everyone feeling good about immigration suddenly in Ireland, that there's nobody jumping queues or anything like that.
I think that, as Susan says, the question is about process. It's not about numbers.
But at the same time, there's no point denying the fact that the increased population that is in part caused by an influx in people coming here, not just asylum seekers, migrants who are coming to work, who have work permits, that is putting a strain on our housing system.
And I was speaking to James Brown last week for the Irish Examiner, and he said that, you know, I said to him, can you give me a pinpoint? Is...
the homelessness figure is going to fall this year and he said no this is going to be an issue for years to come because we no one could have anticipated the increase in population that we have had what is the answer to that he says build more homes what are they doing i don't know but they are trying to build more homes they are not building enough and he admitted that himself to me
So there's no point denying that migration is having an input, an impact on our housing. It is causing rents to increase. It is causing, you know, house prices to go up. That is not because of people moving here. That is because of supply and demand.
Yeah. And the last year is where the house building wasn't happening. And that'll take a long time to fix. Now, I want to move on to Micheál Martin and his deepfake, because he posted online warning people not to be fooled by this AI generated ad, which appeared to show him encouraging people to invest in a get rich quick scheme. We can hear the deep fake now in his response to it.
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Chapter 5: What are the main issues with the current social housing situation?
is that people who are genuinely trying to communicate, genuinely trying to sell something, genuinely trying to share an idea, people are going to say, oh, it's just another one of those scams.
But when you see all these people, though, you know, you hear these stories every so often of, oh, I gave, I thought he was, I don't know, Brad Pitt, 100,000 euros.
Oh, yeah, that was the famous one in France, wasn't it?
Yeah, I thought he was contacting me and it wasn't him. Like if people can fall for, you know, just messages like that, if you get these deep fakes involved, if you get voice, you know, manipulation, if you can get all that stuff, it leaves people so much more vulnerable. And it's a question of are we actually doing anything at all?
I know Simon Harris is suggesting that there's EU legislation coming down the track, but sure, how long does that take? And by the time that comes around, how more sophisticated is the technology going to have become?
Now, are you looking forward to getting your 7K bag for your holidays? I have a real issue. Because you're going to have to get one. I have a real issue with this. The rules are changing, so the 10K bag's going to go, the airlines can't charge anymore, and you'll be allowed to take your 7KG bag on for free. What is the problem, Louise?
If you think I can travel with only 7KG, that is, that's not happening.
That's how long you're going away for, surely.
Well, I was in London. I went last Friday. I went Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I had a 10 kg bag. You know, I dropped it because, you know, the way you get your free dropped bag. Oh, yes. Check it in. Yeah. So I dropped my bag and I was gone for three days. And like it was it was warm in London. So I didn't even have winter clothes with me. I didn't even bring another pair of shoes.
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