Chapter 1: What is Jennifer Bray's background in journalism?
Hello, my friend, and welcome to Catch Up with Louise McSharry. This is the podcast where I try and keep you caught up with what's going on in the world, whether it's news on a Monday, entertainment on a Wednesday, or indeed a chat with someone interesting who has something interesting going on on a Friday. And this week's guest is Jennifer Bray.
Jennifer Bray is the political editor at the Sunday Times. She has had an 18-year career in journalism, which has included work in the Irish Times, the Times, the Sunday Tribune, and the Irish Daily Mail. I've been very familiar with her work as a political writer for a long time, and we've met socially a couple of times, but I didn't know Jen well at all.
But I really enjoyed reading her debut novel, The Lies Between Us, which is out this week. And I kind of wanted to know more about her. And I have to say, I so enjoyed this conversation. And Sometimes you just sometimes the conversation is just easy. And that's how it was.
And I think you'll hear that Jen is really brave and discussing some kind of personal experiences, which ended up feeding into her novel. And we discuss struggles with confidence. We talk about big sibling age gaps.
Chapter 2: How does Jennifer Bray describe her experience with her debut novel?
And then we also talk about how sometimes you think you can maybe just push your way past a traumatic experience, but it will often come back to haunt you later. frequently when you least expect it. I know you're going to love this chat. Even if you've never heard of Jen before, even if you're not a reader, I just know that you'll enjoy this. It's Jennifer Bray.
Jen Bray, it is so nice to have you here in my home and especially in this capacity because I've been familiar with your work for many years, obviously as a political journalist. But you're not here to talk about political journalism, although I will ask you a little bit about it. You are here to talk about your novel, The Lies Between Us, which is out now.
I think as this goes out, it'll be out in the world. And how does that feel?
Crazy. Yeah, it feels crazy because like there's such a long lead in to publication that.
actually sometimes it starts to feel like it's never going to happen yeah it feels like this thing that's just in the future yeah and everything else comes before it and then all of a sudden you're in launch week and it's you keep pinching yourself going oh it's happening yeah like you really need to get your shit together yeah and then I find or my experience I've only had one book but it then it goes by so quickly and then all of a sudden you're like wait what I spent so long writing that and like you know developing it and editing it and all the rest and then it kind of sometimes it feels like it goes in a flash
kind of like a wedding like that isn't it like you spend so long preparing for it and you're like overthinking every last detail and on the day like all the stuff you overthink probably just doesn't matter and then the day after you're like oh yeah it's done yeah exactly yeah so I'm trying to like any glimmers of joy or like
like emails with good news to like grab it and be like this is amazing rather than being like oh how cool yeah I'm trying to like maximize every last drop of fun out of this thing that sounds like a really good approach I think that's definitely the best way to go about it um I have a hundred million questions okay we'll not get to all of them but um the first thing I wanted to ask you obviously you are an interviewer often so how does it feel to be an interviewee oh man it is so weird like it I I
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Chapter 3: What personal experiences influenced Jennifer Bray's writing?
It feels like sandpaper grading or something because when someone asks me a question, my automatic reaction is, no, no, no, don't be so silly. I'm going to ask you a question now. And I found myself automatically doing that in interviews. If someone says, where did you grow up? I say, here is where I grew up. And what about you? And they're like, no, that's not about me. That's not the vibe.
No, and it is strange. It's really, really odd. But it's lovely as well in some ways because...
you know when I think about it there's been a lot of anxiety for me around going into kind of publication but like if I could show myself five years ago this would that this is what it would look like this would happen I wouldn't believe it so instead of kind of getting mired in anxious thoughts it's kind of like let them flow through and then like enjoy the process and actually it's kind of way easier answering questions about your book than answering questions about like Trump's tariffs or you know like economic recession or something
Yeah, yeah. I certainly... I would prefer. Me too.
Chapter 4: How does Jennifer Bray cope with anxiety surrounding her book launch?
What do you think the anxiety is about? Is it just about wanting the book to do well or is it bigger stuff?
It's... Well, naturally, I really want the book to do well. Like, I'm so, like... Because I'm so determined to make a career out of this, you know, a second career out of it that I really want this to do well because I feel like it will give me a really good platform for the next book and the one after. So I also want to look back and say I did everything I possibly could.
So no matter what happens, I can stand by how I handled these couple of weeks and the months leading up to it and the years leading up to that.
but the other part of it as well is you're putting yourself out there it's a kind of scary world there's a lot of anger and hate and people are quite divided and it feels like you're putting yourself into that and that's scary you know and because when I go on like radio or whatever to talk about the day job I'm talking about a topic that I will know usually sometimes I'm winging it
But like normally I will know what I'm talking about, but you're talking about a topic. You know, when you're coming to do interviews about your book, you're kind of, you're talking about yourself. It's a completely different prospect. And I think as well, there's this thing for me about being seen. And I never realized how terrified I've been of like being seen for who I am.
And I know that sounds like really like woo-woo, but it has kept me awake at night going, oh my God, what if everyone hates me? And then it's like, okay, well, people are going to think what they're going to think.
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Chapter 5: What role does family play in Jennifer Bray's novel?
Just be yourself.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, I think I definitely like to come back to that and being seen. But first, I think we should go back to the beginning. Because, you know, obviously, as we mentioned, you're a political journalist, you've been a journalist for years, and a very successful journalist. But from what I gather, you also always wanted to be a novelist as well. Yeah, tell me a little bit of my thought.
I mean I was trying to think even last night this memory came back to me I was just like at home like puttering around cleaning things that are never clean and I remembered sitting on the couch with my mom when I was like four or five and her reading like the princess and the pea and like
Jack and the Beanstalk and all those you know kind of kids books to me and I it just I just remember even then being so transported to this fairy tale world I couldn't believe it and then when I got a bit older um I got into the Harry Potter books and I was the same age as the characters and that as the books came out and oh my god you're so young I'm not you are that's young to me that's young
Don't feel you're going to feel old. But I just remember like, this is going to sound so lame, but when, spoiler alert, when Dumbledore dies, I bawled reading the book. And I remember going, hold on, books can make you cry. Books can transport you to a world that doesn't exist.
that really opened my mind and then when I was a teenager I started to read thrillers I probably started reading them a little bit too young but whatever we move and I remember just finishing thrillers and going what how did they how did they do that how did they play those tricks on me you know and that was kind of the journey was just the sense of awe of what writers do and being transported and when I got to being a lady you know later in my teenage years I'm like I kind of had a
I really, really wanted to be independent.
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Chapter 6: What themes of sisterhood are explored in 'The Lies Between Us'?
I wanted to be financially independent. I grew up in a big family. So having space is important to me. Yeah, you're one of 10 siblings?
One of 10, yeah. That's wild. It's crazy.
Where in the family are you? So I'm the eldest girl and I'm 37. And then the eldest is Stephen. He's 38. But when we're in August for a month, we're the same age.
Oh, so you are right at the tippy top of those 10. Wow.
so like there was always like which I love and I'm not complaining at all loads of kids and babies and I loved that um so how old is your youngest sibling now 16 wow yeah it's crazy it is crazy and also my four sisters are all younger than me so like there's no nothing will make you feel older than listening to the stuff like your your younger sisters will really be like oh did you not hear about this what are you wearing yeah you didn't know about that oh that phrase means this and I'm like I'm so old
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Chapter 7: How does Jennifer Bray's real-life experience shape her characters?
Can I ask you a question that's potentially rude? Of course. Did your mom and dad just love having kids? I think so.
Yeah. I think that's literally it. Because like sometimes people have, I've encountered kind of different attitudes towards big families down through the years. Some of them are like, you know, what the hell is going on there? But realistically, I think they just loved having kids. And I think my mom loved having kids a lot. And I loved having loads of siblings.
And it just was almost something that just happened. Do you know the way? Yeah. And I never thought about it too much.
Chapter 8: What exciting developments are coming for Jennifer Bray's novel?
I was just like, that's my family. It's only when you go out into the world in your, like, 18s, early 20s, people are like, what?
Because where did you grow up?
So I grew up in Dublin. Then when the family started getting bigger and bigger, my parents moved to Wexford just outside Gorry. So there's, some of my siblings are actually born in Wexford. So some of them have kind of almost a Wexford accent. And then my older brother has a Dublin accent. So it's funny. We're a little like melting pot.
Yeah oh I love it I mean I just I can see so much enrichment in terms of coming from a family like that and as you say just even having brothers and sisters across the spectrum of ages like my youngest sister is 15 years younger than me. Wow. Which is a big gap but that's not as big as your one.
Still though 15 like years you'll feel it with your sister when she starts telling you like here's what I'm watching or listening to and you're like who's that?
Well, no, not me.
Not you.
Because, no, I'm weird. Like, I'm upset. Like, I have to know. The only thing that's gotten me recently, because, and sometimes I'm like, does that make me a loser that I'm so obsessed with knowing what people are talking about? No. That's your job. Exactly. I have managed to create a career around this obsession, which is an innate obsession that I have.
The only thing that's gotten me recently is, are you aware of mogging, gesture maxing, frame mogging, any of these terms?
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