Rich Diviney is a retired Navy SEAL Commander. In a career spanning more than twenty years, he completed more than thirteen overseas deployments, eleven of which were to Iraq and Afghanistan. As the officer in charge of training for a specialized command, he spearheaded the creation of a SEAL directorate that fused physical, mental, and emotional disciplines. He led his small team to create the first ever "Mind Gym" in Naval Special Warfare that helped SEALs train their brains to perform faster, longer, and better, especially in high-stress environments. Since his retirement, Diviney has worked as a speaker, facilitator, and consultant, training more than five thousand business, athletic, and military leaders. Today's Sponsors: Black Rifle Coffee Company: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com ExpressVPN: Secure your online data TODAY by visiting ExpressVPN dot com slash clearedhot. That’s E-X-P-R-E-S-S-V-P-N dot com slash clearedhot to find out how you can get up to four extra months FREE. https://www.ExpressVPN.com/clearedhot.
Chapter 1: Who is Rich Diviney and what is his background?
What's up, everybody? Welcome back. My guest today is Rich Deviney. 20 plus years as a Navy SEAL officer, 13 overseas deployments, 11 of those being between Afghanistan and Iraq, worked his way up through the rank infrastructure, commanding officer of one of the assault squadrons over at Development Group for a time. He talks about all of this, and we talk a little bit about his career as well.
Chapter 2: What are Rich Diviney's books about?
But I tell you what, this conversation, he's an author. Let me add that, by the way, because actually we talked about, I would say, the content of his books more than anything. Two books, Masters of Uncertainty and then The Attributes. We had a fascinating conversation about attributes and skills, which ones determine outcome, why people quit in Bud, how to effectively
attack your goals and be successful where other people are generally not. It was an awesome conversation. I love conversations like this with people from previous background. And it's funny, the outside listener or people outside of the SEAL community often think that we all know each other because it is relatively small, but you really only know the people that work in the building with you.
let alone peripherally the people that maybe work in the next building. So we crossed paths and we're kind of in the same places, but didn't really know each other that well at all. So it was great to sit down, reconnect and talk about what he's got going on. I really enjoyed the conversation about the attributes and skills and problem solving and just successfully completing your goals.
So episode 387 is going to be with Rich Deviney. Give me an interview here. Let me pay the bills so I can keep bringing the podcast to everybody for free. Today's episode is brought to you by Black Rifle Coffee. You guys know the brand. You know I'm tied into the brand. I'm incredibly good friends with the founder, Evan. I own one of the coffee shops up here in Montana.
None of that can benefit you, the listener. But what can is if you go over to www.blackriflecoffee.com. Let's head over there right now. So they're still showing up on their top banner, Operation Neptune Spear. I covered this in the last ad read. That was the official operation name for... The military operation that killed Osama bin Laden.
There's a lot of the word operation that I just used there. Moving on. I mean, but also, who doesn't like an owl with a set of binos on there? Rounds. I tell you what. We sell rounds in the coffee shop, and I am shocked by how many people buy these things.
It's not how I prefer to enjoy coffee, but the feedback I'm getting that rounds are also known as K-cups, they're incredibly convenient, and the recipes keep getting better, meaning how they're putting it together, and the taste of the cup of coffee is basically like right out of a coffee shop. So you can shop those.
All of their beans here on this rotating little banner, this slider bar, you can go all the way from light to extra dark. And you can get shirts, apparel, all of those things. I'll leave you with the energy drinks that are new. They have four flavors. These are also a top seller at the shop. Again, not my particular cup of tea, but people are loving those things.
The last thing I'll leave you with is this. The cleared hot blend of coffee is coming back. Now, you're not going to be able to get that on this particular website, and I'll talk about that later. But it's one of the cool things I get to do collaborating with this brand. It's founded by amazing people. They stand for what I believe to be are the core tenets of this country.
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Chapter 3: How do attributes influence success?
First book was a full-blown publisher, Penguin Rainmouse. And then the second one, I did a hybrid. self-publish. It's one of these, so it's Amplify where you, you, you pay an investment, but they help you with all those things. The percentages are way better that way. And again, I had a great experience with my publisher and the time was during COVID.
So, so the advance was really helpful and all that stuff. But the percentages aren't very good with the publisher in terms of Royalties and things like that.
They need to get their money back first.
Chapter 4: What is the significance of writing in high-stress environments?
They do.
They're not in the business of doing things for free.
Right. As are a few people. And I actually had a great conversation with my publisher before I did my second book. And he was like, Rich, I totally get it. I can't offer you these types of percentages. You can try it out. And yeah, it was a good experience. Or has been so far.
What's your writing process like? Do you have a fully formed idea? Do you lay out a framework?
It's usually, yeah, there's usually an idea around which I want to center. And then I begin to lay out an outline in terms of the supporting things that I can talk about. Now, the first book was about attributes. And that was really the reason why I wrote that was because, so the background on that is when I got out, I linked up with Andrew Huberman. He and I linked up right away.
And he was still teaching at Stanford. And we started- The Hubes, if you will. The Hubes, if you will.
Is he no longer teaching?
No, he still is. Yeah. I just, yeah. So I don't know how much, but, uh, but he was running his lab for certain. Cause that's, you know, I, we brought, I brought my family out there one, one time just to visit. And so now my son, he's going to UVA for neuroscience cause he's just, he's so into it, but, uh, which is awesome.
Um, but we began working on some stuff together and we said, Hey, let's, let's think about writing a book. Um, as we went down that process, we got an agent and we started looking at publishers. Um, he, he had actually been talking about a single book. a solo book at the time.
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Chapter 5: How does one navigate uncertainty and stress?
You might not even recognize he's in the class. It's just humming at 80%, crushing D1 athletes.
That's right. Well, and the reason is because we don't because uncertainty is totally different. And I and when I talk about uncertainty, I what I say is athletics is not necessarily the best venue inside of which to practice uncertainty. Now, it depends on the it depends on the sport.
I would say any fighting sport is an exception because because when you go into a fighting sport, you just don't know. however prepared you are, you don't know what that other human being is going to do at all. You know, every time you're, you're constantly in reaction mode.
Um, but things like, you know, basketball and football, although wonderful venues, and I know there's some uncertainty involved, but they're, they're fairly codified environments inside of which people can predict, or they're not really, they've seen, they've seen pretty much everything that can happen.
So I think you have fewer options and ability for creativity in
That's right. That's right. And that's right. And and less fear.
Well, you might get punched in the face, but they're definitely going to get ejected.
Yeah, that's right. Get some free. That's right. But you're not afraid of getting punched in the face. Right. Whereas in a fighting sport. Yeah. Yeah. And I would say, you know, and I love UFC. And even though I don't practice Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. How dare you, sir? I know. I'm sorry. I just I put that on the table. So we report you to Jocko.
That's right. Yes.
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Chapter 6: What is the 'moving horizons' concept?
None of us, all of us who showed up at the beaches of BUDS day one had some sort of training or experience in this prior to, because if we didn't, we wouldn't make it through the first day.
I already know where you're going with this and I can actually point back to the exact experiences that I had and know where it came from. Yeah. And you probably got the advice in BUDS That I did. Yeah. Which is just make it to the end of the day. Yeah. And in Hell Week, just make it to the next meal.
Yeah.
Which is a broad brush compartmentalize. It's a compartmentalize. Focus only on the moment. Right. Get through whatever it is, you know. Yeah. When Master Chief Mayor is screaming at you with his jaw.
Nightmare. Is that your nickname? Nightmare.
Cool.
We hadn't even classed up yet, not to take a tangent. And I think he's out now, so I'll use his name. This was Mike Mayer. We were over at 618. I wasn't even in that barracks yet. This was like a Saturday. He beat the ever-living shit out of us with a jaw that was wired shut from surgery. I remember.
His daughter was walking around and two dudes just got up and ran towards where they thought the bell was.
I remember that. And I remember that surgery. Cause I remember, cause we were going to buzz around the same time.
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Chapter 7: How do attributes compare to skills in high-performance teams?
And it still felt like torture. Yeah. And feels like torture.
So thank you for rounding the edges on that, English police.
People don't understand. People who haven't been to Southern California don't understand how fucking cold the water is.
Especially in the winter.
Yeah. Yeah. And people also don't understand that most people quit buds because of cold. It's not because of the physical stuff.
We had a February hell week. I know.
212.
Yeah.
It was, there was a cacophony of just an orchestra at the bell.
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Chapter 8: Why is humor important in high-stress situations?
And you're moving on, and their life takes a different trajectory. As an instructor, you get to spend time with those students. So you talk to them. And there's a variety of ways that they describe it. Sometimes it's really sad, actually. There'll be a catastrophic family incident, like a death.
Yes, yes, when they can't.
And it's like, you know what, man? come back whenever. And actually, you're doing the right thing. If you hadn't have done this, if the instructor staff found out about it, we actually might have petitioned to have you administratively removed so you can handle that. Other than that, though, when people made the decision to quit, my words, not necessarily theirs.
And I'm combining a lot of feedback over a lot of students who were, they were pretty emotionally low and they, and I was always just cool. I would just talk with them about it. And at this point I had, I wasn't a threat to them in my blue and gold t-shirt anymore.
Right.
And I just said, well, what was it like? And I would, at first I'd ask him, you know.
With genuine curiosity.
Genuine curiosity. And I would ask him, you know, kind of walk me through your, your headspace. When you showed up here, were you convinced that you were going to graduate? All of them say yes. Yeah. You know, is this something that was along the lines of a singular focus in your life before you got here? They all say yes.
If I would have asked you on day one, if there was anything I could have done as an instructor to make you quit, what do you think you would have said? Like, no way I'm going to be there on graduation. And so they're sitting there and I talked to them. So what was it? And it was so many different versions of the same thing.
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