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Changing prisoners' minds with Vedic meditation at Rikers Island

26 May 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: How did Joh Jarvis's journey into meditation begin?

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At a rural picnic spot in the dark, a young man suddenly disappears.

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4.578 - 8.344 Sarah Konoski

You could nearly say an alien took him away because he's just vanished.

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When more clues from that night surface, something doesn't sit right. It's nonsensical where the stuff is. It's been scattered. I'm Rob Bergen. Join me as I investigate what became of Jack in the new season of Unravel. Is it a murder? Is it someone just gone missing? You know where my son is. Search for the Unravel podcast on ABC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts. ABC Listen.

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Podcasts, radio, news, music and more.

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36.633 - 63.18 Jo Jarvis

Jo Jarvis spends a lot of her week at Rikers Island Prison. Rikers is a notorious remand jail in New York City. Jo goes there to teach meditation to men being held in the jail. And whether these men are in for murder or assault or drug crime, whatever it is that's brought them to prison, Jo believes that a simple meditation practice can profoundly change their lives.

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because that's what meditation has done for her. Jo had a successful career here at the ABC. She was well-paid, lived in a nice house in Sydney, had lots of friends and family. But on the inside, Jo was looking for more meaning in the way that she lived. So heading towards her 50th birthday, Jo packed her bags and moved to New York City, a place she'd been dreaming about since she was a kid.

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From knowing no one, Jo now has a wife, a dog and a growing number of meditation students, including the men in Rikers Island Prison. Hi, Jo. Hi, Sarah. Tell me about this place, about Rikers Island. What was it like going there the very first time?

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Actually, I found it kind of exciting because perhaps this is a journalist in me, but, you know, I like going places where you're not really meant to go. You know, you're not allowed to go. Most people don't want to go, actually. And it's an interesting place just to, you know, just approaching it is interesting. So from my apartment, it takes two subway rides and then a very long journey.

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So it takes me around two hours to get there. And then because it's an island, you cross a bridge. And as you're approaching it, you just see these, you know, huge razor wire just kind of looming ahead of you. And inside the razor wire, there's a series of facilities.

Chapter 2: What challenges does Joh face teaching meditation at Rikers Island?

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So it's one jail. which in Australia is known as, you referred to as a romance centre, but it's got a series of them, a number of them, and I was going to the maximum security. And so, you know, there was a slight degree of trepidation, I suppose, the first time. I'd never been in a maximum security jail or prison before. I didn't know anyone who was incarcerated.

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I really had no relationship with incarcerated people at all, you know, so it was just some trepidation, I think, the first time I went there.

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180.745 - 184.631 Jo Jarvis

What sort of security do you have to go through to enter the prison?

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Yeah, it's quite a bit of security. And if you don't arrive with the right security, you're sent back. You know, there's no getting around it. But essentially what happens is you arrive at a centre, it's like a reception centre, and you go through there and it's like going through an airport. You know, when you're at the airport, you go through the X-ray and...

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If you go through that and then you get on a bus. So when you go through that, basically there are doors that close behind you each time. And what I found going into these places is these places being prisons and jails, there are so many doors that close behind you and you start to realise that you're going from one cage into another cage into another cage and you're just...

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kind of plays on your psyche, you know, this continual caging that occurs. So you go through the reception centre, you get on a bus, the bus goes around the different facilities, drops you at yours. So I go to Maximum Security, it's called the GRVC Centre, and there's about 2,000 men in Maximum Security in the whole of Rikers Island. There is about 6,000 men.

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It's one of America's largest penal colonies. So the next bit of security is that going into maximum security, you go through a whole other layer of security, which is, again, a little bit like going into the airport. Take off anything that buzzes, you go through, they X-ray everything, and you walk through.

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And usually in the beginning there was someone who would escort me around, and I kind of found this to be, I guess, a privilege, and that is I'm now allowed to escort myself around. I've got that sort of privilege, if you like. So, yeah.

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That's an extraordinary number of people. Is there violence inside that prison, Jo?

Chapter 3: What was Joh's first experience with Vedic meditation like?

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It's just too disrupted. So I was just about to leave. And as I was about to leave, this guy who really is losing his mind, he started walking over towards me. oh, this is going to be interesting. And as he's walking towards me, I just looked at him and he looked at me and he said, who are you? And I said, oh, I'm the meditation teacher.

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And he said, oh, he goes, I suppose you think I need meditation. And I said, well, I think it's good for most people actually. And he goes, no, you think I really need it, don't you? And I said, yeah. yeah, actually I do. And he goes, all right, I'll sign up. And he signed up for the class the next day I was teaching him.

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467.554 - 478.693 Jo Jarvis

Institutions of all kinds, they not only have their special sounds, they have smells, just that number of people put together. What's it smell like inside Rikers Island?

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You're so right. It really does. It has a particular smell. It's a sort of smell of stagnancy. There's no, very little airflow, if any airflow, you know, there's no open windows. And it's not because I think that the place is dirty. I mean, it's been cleaned all the time because there's a lot of people there to do cleaning, you know. Yeah, it doesn't, yeah, it doesn't smell good.

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Inmates volunteer to come along to the meditation course that you run, Jo. How do you begin it? What's your spiel?

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They're always fascinated by my accent and they always ask me about, you know, did you know Steve Irwin and do you know what happened to Steve Irwin? And there's always a conversation about Steve Irwin. And I just explained to them that this is a technique that if they're stressed will make them feel better.

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And I explained to them that it's very simple, that I will take them through it over four days. And by the end of it, they'll be self-sufficient in that sense, meaning They don't need me. They don't need any apps or any guidance. They're completely self-sufficient. And that means that they can then meditate for 20 minutes twice a day, able to do that, and that they will feel better.

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So I talk about it just in terms of feeling better. I try to make it as practical as possible. I remember one time I walk in there. I'm giving the talk. You know, this is about stress. This improves your capacity to handle stress. You will feel better from doing it. I'll show you how to do it over four days. So I'm giving the talk.

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And then this guy off to my right and he's got his feet up on one of the chairs and he's got his arms out in front of him. He's doing push-ups, you know, and, you know, it's very well built and he's just like doing these push-ups at this great rate. And as I'm talking, he goes, I've got a question. I'm like, yeah, what's your question?

Chapter 4: How does meditation help inmates cope with their situations?

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That just means they're seed mantras. It's like planting a seed, if you like. These mantras, they don't have any meaning. So when you think them, your mind doesn't get caught in the meaning of them. It just, your mind responds to the vibrational quality. And they're a vehicle for the mind to go inwards.

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So when you think these words and you don't chant it and you don't say it over and over in a clear, concise sort of way, you think it and you allow it to drift away. And that process of allowing the mind to drift takes your mind inwards. And as the mind goes inwards, the body starts to relax. And through that process, the mind goes to subtler states of thinking, which is very calming.

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It's very peaceful. But also what happens is that the body, when it relaxes, releases stress. Because stress is locked in the physiology. And the thing is with this meditation technique, you're doing it twice a day. So you're systematically removing years and years of built up stress and trauma. And then you're also countering the stress that will come in that day.

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767.169 - 775.238 Jo Jarvis

What sort of things have inmates told you about their experience with the practice and with learning meditation?

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They are often so insightful and I think about this guy called Angel who I taught about a year ago and on the second day he said – and he definitely didn't say this in front of the rest of the class – He said, oh, you know, this is making me feel softer, like more gentle. And I said, oh, that's probably a great thing to feel, isn't it? And he said, no, it's not at all. And I said, why?

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Could you say more about that? And he said, yeah, because you do not want to feel like that in here. He kind of looked at me like... You're a bit of an idiot. Don't you get it? And I did kind of get it, but I wanted him to say it. And look, I think that's the case for any man, actually. Not any man, but a lot of men. You know, they have to be tough. They've got to be seen to have it together.

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Now, if you're in a jail, which I've described the violence before, so you've just got this hostility and violence around you. or the potential for it at all times, you are not going to want, you're going to want to feel ready. You're going to want to feel like you can take on anyone. They're on high alert. And so feeling tough. And also this guy, Angel had also lived on the street.

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So he had built a lot of defences and he didn't want to feel that softness. So I described, I sort of walked him through how in fact it was going to become his best friend. and how it didn't make him weaker. Because I think he had that sense of, if I relax too much, I'm not going to be able to look after myself. But it's actually not the case.

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And sometimes, you know, people who are corporate people will say a similar sort of thing to me. It's actually interesting. They'll say, oh, I'm feeling so relaxed. I'm really scared that I'm just not going to have enough kind of stress to keep driving me. You're going to be walked all over.

Chapter 5: What insights do inmates share about their meditation experience?

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but everything was this psychedelic green outside. Something had happened and I was sort of on a whole other plane. It didn't remain like that. I'm just saying that that was the impact on me at the time. And then what I noticed for the rest of the week, because you go for four days, so you go for four classes for an hour, 90 minutes each time.

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As the week progressed, I just got more and more relaxed. And if you have been in this kind of literally a prison of your own mind, to feel relaxed and to feel happiness for the first time in I don't know how long. I just had these glimpses of hope. It's like, oh, something is being unlocked here. I know this is the key. And yeah, so not surprisingly, I continued with it.

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2155.694 - 2170.497 Jo Jarvis

You took up this practice and ended up training as a teacher of Vedic meditation and then one day had a meeting with a senior teacher who was visiting Sydney and you asked him if he had any advice for you. What happened?

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This senior teacher was in town and we were in Bondi, a beautiful house overlooking the sea. And, you know, I considered him wise. And he had been telling me a number of things about the tradition that I had learned meditation in and I found it very interesting. But at the end of the session, I just thought I'd ask him if he had any advice for me.

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And so I directly said, do you have any advice for me? And he said, yes. And he kind of gestured out to the sea below and he said, you've got to get out of this place. It's a dangerous paradise. I'm like, oh, my goodness, that's not exactly what I thought you were going to say.

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I thought you were going to say I needed to do, you know, an extra 10 minutes meditation a day or something like that, you know, that kind of advice. So I said to him, so where do you think I should go? And he said, New York City. And he was American and... I was, it was like someone had shot me through the heart in a good way. I was like, you're kidding.

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That's the place I've wanted to live my whole life. I've just never had the wherewithal to get myself there. And, you know, and at this point I'm in my late 40s. And it was one of those things that once you hear it, you can't unhear it. And as a result, it just bothered me and bothered me and bothered me until I finally did it.

2253.976 - 2261.706 Jo Jarvis

How did people react, Jo, when you said, I'm leaving ABC News Radio, I'm leaving my life in Sydney and I'm going to New York?

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There was a couple of years lead up to the actual going because I was terrified, you know, because it meant throwing everything in. It meant giving up my job. leaving my friends, leaving my family, going to a place that I didn't know anyone. I think I had one acquaintance in New York City.

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