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Chapter 1: What are the abuse allegations made against Geoffrey Donaldson?
This is a Belltel and Crime World podcast. I wasn't doing anything untoward, Geoffrey Donaldson told police officers. Geoffrey Donaldson told police that he can't get his head around abuse allegations. The tape of the former MP's interview with the PSNI was played at his trial in Newry Crown Court on Monday morning.
The jury also heard Donaldson deny that he apologised to one of the two complainants in the case because he thought it would make this go away. The 63-year-old is accused of rape and several counts of gross indecency and indecent assault. He denies all 18 alleged offences. There are two alleged victims, Complainant A and Complainant B.
His wife, Eleanor Donaldson, from Dublin Hill Road in Dromore, denies several charges of aiding and abetting. Alison Morris was in court.
Chapter 2: How did Geoffrey Donaldson respond to the allegations during police interviews?
Alison Morris, you're very welcome to the Belltel. And just before we begin to remind listeners that many people will find some aspects of the allegations made in this podcast to be disturbing. Now, Alison, last week we heard from the complainants. Now we're hearing, in a sense, from Geoffrey Donaldson. It's a recording of an interview he gave to police.
Yeah, so it's still the prosecution case. We still haven't moved on to the defence. But what we're hearing now is those taped interviews. So these are just recordings. We're not seeing any video or visual.
Chapter 3: What details were revealed in the taped interviews with Geoffrey Donaldson?
But the audio of the tape recordings when police arrested Geoffrey Donaldson and his wife, Eleanor, for these alleged defences back in 2024. So today's court started with three out of the four taped interviews with Geoffrey Donaldson. So tomorrow morning we'll hear the fourth one. But right now we've heard three of those.
And there was a bit of a delay because the voice recordings at the original jury were complaining they couldn't hear some of it. So we had a bit of a delay while they got a printed transcript given to all the jury. And Geoffrey Donaldson raised his hand and asked for a printed transcript too because he said he wasn't hearing it clearly.
Once all that was sorted out, then we went ahead and started listening then to the first of those three voice recordings.
And these interview tapes were recorded by police at Antrim PSNI station after the arrest of Geoffrey Donaldson and his wife Eleanor in 2024. What did we hear him saying?
Yeah, so a lot of this was to do with allegations made by the older of the two officers. witnesses who has been called witness B or complainant B and we heard the voice of Geoffrey Donaldson being interviewed by the police at the time and he is heard saying that at no stage had the woman who he has accused of abuse and ever said to me that I touched her or anything inappropriate on that occasion.
This was one of the occasions it was put to him. Donaldson was asked about his contact with Complaint B over the years and he said that she would have occasionally in the course of her work contacted me. He added that she would have contacted me and asked for advice and he said at one stage he would have put her in touch with local counsellors.
Were any of the allegations relating to witness A put to Geoffrey Donaldson in the interviews which we heard today?
We mainly got to those in the third tape in the afternoon. So there's a fourth part of these interviews that's going to be played tomorrow. But in that he was asked about allegations made by complainant A.
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Chapter 4: What specific allegations were made by Complainant A?
He did respond by saying there's one incident that the woman had brought up involving the allegation that he had shone a light. And we've heard this in previous podcasts. Donaldson says, I didn't have a light. I wasn't doing anything untoward. He added that it was something that Witness A had and his words were cast up in recent years.
Now, allegations were directly put to him by interviewing PSNI officers regarding this allegation that he sexually assaulted Witness B as a child. That was put to him directly.
Yeah, and she had previously in the court, the jury has previously heard that she said this happened when she was around seven or eight years of age. He has heard responding to these questions and he said, I'm sorry, but the answer is absolutely, categorically, this did not happen. He said, there is absolutely no truth to this. And when asked again did it happen, he responded, but just no.
Police said complainant B claimed during interviews that on one occasion that... Geoffrey Donaldson put his hand down her pants. That was put to him as well. How did he respond to that?
Yeah, so again, you hear him respond with the word no. And then they asked him about details of Complaint B's evidence. When she said that he had inserted his fingers in her private parts, asking if that happened, he again replied no. Complaint B had told police that Geoffrey Donaldson had played with her breasts. In response to that question, he asked, what age was she?
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Chapter 5: How did Geoffrey Donaldson react to allegations from Complainant B?
And police said, primary school age. And he's heard saying, no, absolutely not. Donaldson responded. So the detective then asked about the allegations that he had pulled Complainant B's feet apart with his two feet and sexually assaulted her. He said that did not happen.
Complainant B has said that she remembers Jeffrey Donaldson being a heavy breather. That is her allegation. And he was asked about this breathing by the PSNI also.
Yeah, and he said he would have been younger when this alleged to happen. And he says, why would I be a heavy breather? I've never had asthma, was his response to that. He was then asked about the allegation that he had inserted his penis into the entrance of her private parts. The detective said, do you have any comment to make on that? And he said, no, not ever, he said.
And Geoffrey Donaldson then told police, I'm sorry, but I can't get my head around this notion. That is something that never happened, would not happen.
Just a reminder to the listener that both Geoffrey Donaldson and his wife, Eleanor, deny all of the allegations against them. Now, Complainant B recounted a second allegation to police at a time when she was of secondary school age and claimed that Geoffrey Donaldson lifted her upper clothing to expose her breasts. We heard from Witness B last week.
Again, that allegation was put to Geoffrey Donaldson during the course of these police interviews.
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Chapter 6: What was Geoffrey Donaldson's explanation regarding his visit to the Christian Family Centre?
Yeah, he was asked by police, have you touched her breasts? And he responded, no. The detective is then heard asking, have you ever done anything like that? To which again, he responded, no. Complainably, he then claimed that while she was being assaulted, that Eleanor Donaldson came in to the door of the room and then walked away.
We've heard all this previously during when the complainants were given their evidence. And then we hear police putting this to Geoffrey Donaldson during those interviews in 2024. And the officer is heard asking, did that happen? And he said there was one occasion and he said, I can't remember the time of year, but there was one occasion that Witness Bain himself were alone.
Geoffrey Donaldson told police that he and Witness B were set together, but added that there was nothing of an inappropriate nature in terms of breast exposure or anything like that. And the detective then asked, was any part of that sexually motivated? And he responded, no, absolutely not. And then he said, I'm sorry, but that just did not happen.
The jury has previously heard that Witness B was sent to a Christian family centre in Armagh in County Antrim as a teenager and that Geoffrey Donaldson attended there and apologised to her. That centre, as we heard last week, is run by David and Linda Hoy and they gave evidence to the jury last week. He was asked about that visit and this apology which witnesses said he gave in that context.
Yeah, and you can read those reports from last week when the Hoyes were given evidence to the court. So this was the first time we'd heard Geoffrey Donaldson, albeit these were pre-recorded in 2024, being asked about that Christian Family Centre and that meeting organised by the Hoyes. He said, at no stage did anyone allege any evidence.
of the kind of incidents that you have mentioned to me here.
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Chapter 7: What was discussed about the apology given by Geoffrey Donaldson?
And that was of his visit to the centre. He said, when David, that's David Hoy, asked to meet with me and look, he said, he didn't say very much on the phone. He said, look, would you like to have a chat? And I said, I would. Mr. Donaldson told police he then attended the centre in around 1996. He said, I drove to RMI and met the Hoyes.
And the then said complainant B told him that she had been very uncomfortable with aspects of their relationship, but he said that there were no allegations of any inappropriate behaviour put to him. Police asked, did you not wonder what it was that you had done to make her feel uncomfortable?
And he said, we talked, we would have talked through, but at no stage was there any talk of you did this to me or you did that to me. Police asked, was it possible that he didn't have to ask any of the parties involved what the actual problem was because he already knew? And Donaldson replied, no, that was not put to me.
And I mentioned the apology there. Was he asked about, did the police ask him about this apology and why did he apologise?
Yeah, so he was asked again what he was apologising for and Donaldson said, making her feel uncomfortable and he said, I'm sorry that she felt that way. But Geoffrey Donaldson said he had no role in the witness being sent to that centre. We were told during the witness's evidence that she'd been there for around a year after... coming into problems in her teenage years.
When asked by police was it possible he attended the meeting because the witness had been abused and that Donaldson was apologising to her because he thought this might be the best way to make all this go away. He replied no, that was not the nature of the conversation I had on the phone with David Hoy.
Alison, what's going to happen tomorrow?
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Chapter 8: What can we expect in the upcoming court sessions regarding the trial?
So we didn't quite get through all of Geoffrey Donaldson's police interview tapes today. They were broken into four sections and we still have one of those sections left to hear. So the court has asked that we all have a slightly earlier start to try and get the prosecution case concluded tomorrow.
So that means we'll go in tomorrow morning, we'll hear the rest of Geoffrey Donaldson's interview with police. from 2024 and then they will play the interview tapes with police of Eleanor Donaldson after her arrest in 2024.
That's all we're going to hear from Eleanor Donaldson because remember she's having a trial of the facts so she is only represented in court by her legal counsel and whatever interviews she gave before she was deemed medically unfit. So we will then hear those.
They are hoping to get those tapes played before the end of business tomorrow because Rosemary Walsh's prosecution case says she would be really keen for the prosecution to close their case tomorrow afternoon. And after that, we move into the defence case. And in the defence case, we expect on Wednesday to hear from Geoffrey Donaldson himself.
Alison Morris, thank you very much. We at the Bell Tell want to earn your trust and our members of the Trust Project. See our ethics policies at belfasttelegraph.co.uk forward slash our journalism. This is a Bell Tell and Crime World podcast.
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