Show notes
Most successful businesses have a defined sales process. One that identifies the best prospects, converts them into leads and then nurtures those leads with emails into customers. Most private clubs are missing this process. If your club has enjoyed a waitlist, this isn't a big deal, but what happens when the well runs dry? In this episode we're talking about lead management with Kevin Page, Managing Director at StoryTeller and lead HubSpot strategist and lead management expert. We'll dive into managing new prospective member leads, increasing efficiency and helping clubs avoid reactive membership recruitment. Key Moments 1:36 - Ed and Kevin discuss typical prospective member intake processes at most clubs. 5:04 - Ed explains the need to help Membership Directors operate more efficiently. 7:00 - Automating the inquiry process for prospective members doesn't have to be "robotic", Ed and Kevin discuss the advantages and consderations of automation. 9:36 - Responding in a timely manner to a prospective member's inquiry is important and email communication that is tailored for that inquiry can add customization while also utilize automation to make it more efficient and reliable. 10:46 - Kevin explains you can still communicate a level of exclusivity with automated email responses. 12:24 - Kevin explains the importance of sending membership information as part of an automated reply to a website form inquiry. Many clubs already send a "template" response which is not as efficient. 15:01 - Membership directors can get valuable time returned to them by having a process that leverages email automation. Membership Directors will spend less time on unqualified leads and more time with qualified prospects. 19:50 - Ed and Kevin discuss the importance of staying in touch with prospective members who are not ready to join this year, but possibly in the future. 21:08 - Kevin recaps the valuable engagement analytics gained from tracking emails sent and opened. 23:02 - Marketing automation can help clubs beyond new member acquisition. Clubs that host outside catering events can leverage similar technology and CRM platforms to manage leads and forecast new business. 25:57 - Ed and Kevin talk about tracking online activity of prospects and how it can help your membership and catering teams prioritize the most qualified prospects. A high performing CRM will also help your team provide accurate forecasts to report back to committee chairs and the board. 31:04 - Kevin talks about the importance of tracking tasks in a CRM so Membership Directors can stay on top of the many responsibilities they juggle. Podcast Transcript Ed Heil: You are listening to Crushing Club Marketing, a podcast for progressive club leaders ready to increase their club's revenue. Time for change begins right now. Most successful businesses have a defined sales process, one that identifies the best prospects, converts them into leads, and then nurtures those leads with emails into customers. Most private clubs are missing this process. When your club has a waitlist this isn't a big deal, but what happens when the well runs dry? Today we're talking about lead management with Kevin Page, StoryTeller's lead HubSpot strategist and lead management expert. Hey, Kevin Page in the house. How's it going, Kev? Kevin Page: [00:00:48] I'm great. How are you, Ed? Ed Heil: [00:00:49] Awesome. Well, thanks for joining us today. And, I know that our audience is, is interested in this topic because, you know, as you know, working with many of our clients and in clubs that, the actual like, how would you say the actual, like, member application and intake process for that is, is not always the same at every club. And, it can differ from club to club, but in general, it's a pretty outdated process. Like in your work in, in the clubs you've worked. What sort of the typical process when someone expresses an interest or goes to a website to learn more about about a club. Kevin Page: [00:01:36] Yeah. Good question. Often times, you know, these, clubs will have some type of form on the website, whether that be, contact us form, request a tour, download our membership pricing, something along those lines. And that will send a notification to the membership director that membership director, you know, typically is doing one of two things right there, either reaching out and sending, you know, some type of personalized email, to try to nurture that relationship and get to know the person a little bit better, or oftentimes, they're just sending over whatever information that that particular person is asking for. And, you know, crossing their fingers and hoping that an application comes in soon after. Ed Heil: [00:02:22] Right. And so, I mean, I'm in truth, I think that we see a lot as well is that there isn't a, you know, there there might be some sort of like download, get our membership guide or something like that. But in so many cases, especially the more, gosh, what would you say? Maybe the more conservative clubs are just like, hey, request a tour, get more information or something like that. And while, you know, I think that it's not like it's not that that doesn't work, right. I mean, it's not like there isn't you're not getting that information, but they're missing allowed, missing out quite a bit if all they're doing is responding. Just. What, like a notification? That's what a lot of people get using club software today is they'll get a notification in their inbox, their email saying, hey, Kevin Page, apply to be a member today. Right. So. They're missing out a lot of stuff, aren't they? I mean, as far as what they could glean from that person. Kevin Page: [00:03:26] Yeah. Well, what what we oftentimes find when we're working with, with new clubs or consulting with new clubs is there's not much else after that initial outreach. So that initial outreach, many of these membership directors and clubs are, you know, really great at and being on the ball with, hey, those notifications come in. I want to strike while the iron is hot and get out to this person and see if you know they're truly qualified and interested in in joining the club. Others maybe want to either appear very exclusive or, you know, and actually are very exclusive and, and want to, kind of handle the, the sales process with that sort of, dynamic as well. So there's just. Yep. Here's the application process. You know, it's a bit colder. So, you know, either of those approaches. What typically happens is that after that initial approach, it's all right. They join or they don't. And if they don't join, there's very rarely a process in place for, you know, the ongoing nurturing of those people. And as we know, you know, joining a club and membership for most folks is a big decision and a decision that takes some time. You know, a lot of people submitting those forms or understanding or trying to reach out and understanding what membership pricing looks like may not be ready to make that decision within the next 14 days. 30 days, you know, even six months. So it is a bit of a process. But it's not always treated as that type of process, if that makes sense. Ed Heil: [00:05:04] Oh, for sure. And it's, you know, again, that, not to go too far down how old school a lot of processes are, but they have something that's just not necessarily the most efficient process. And I think the one thing I just don't want to lose sight of, if you're listening to this and you happen to be a membership director, you're going, my gosh, are you kidding me? Like, I've got so much stuff I'm responsible for and frankly, with, you know, social media today and with so much digital communications, not to mention a lot of membership directors are responsible for the club newsletter and other things that they're pulled in a lot of different directions, and we get it. So one of the things that we hope that you're able to walk away from today, if you're listening, is, some ideas and ways you can make that process a little bit more efficient. Free up to do some more things and really focus on the the areas where you can really maybe drive the most success and not just for yourself, but for the club as well. So, Kev, let's talk a little bit about, the automation process. Because when you say automation to people in the private club space, it is almost like oil and water. So "oooh, automation doesn't sound like a personal touch," which is very much what historically clubs have wanted to provide that that level of intimacy, especially since they're joining, there, you know, that prospect might be joining their club. And yet automation can feel very, you know, very cold. So let's just talk about what let's start with maybe what does that look like? And when when we talk about automating the process of someone applying or filling out a form on the website so that the membership director doesn't have to handle each one, what does that look like? Kevin Page: [00:07:00] Yeah. That's a great question. So, you know, I look at it in kind of two different parts. And the first part of it is really trying to optimize, the, the time of, you know, let's, let's say the membership director you just mentioned, the number of hats that they wear, the responsibilities that they have oftentimes to member retention and engagement as well as driving new members. And so through that automation, what what we're attempting to do is make sure that they're focusing their attention on the right people, the most qualified people. And so a lot of times, you know, the initial outreach is pretty similar prospect to prospect that comes in, but once there's a reply that happens, you know, or some type of actual connection, that's when automation might become a little bit more difficult, because now you've had that connection, and you want to move forward with that context. And so oftentimes what we do with automation is that initial introduction or outreach can be an automated process. And we have a software called HubSpot that we use to actually implement and and execute a lot of these automated actions. It appears that it's coming from your inbox. It looks like, you know, this membership director is is emailing me directly. We can add, what HubSpot calls personalization, where you can actually fill in people's first name or some other information that you might have about them. So it really does look like a personal touchpoint. [00:08:39] Ed Heil: [00:08:41] So let's I'll just say let's dive into that really quickly though, so we can talk about that, that initial engagement. So let's swap out, this automation process to what, you know, for what, membership directors might be doing today. So I am interested in joining the club. I'd go to the membership page and they say, you know, there's a form that says, hey, tell us about yourself. I feel that that, or if you're interested in membership, you know, fill out this form. Right. So I fill it out today, the membership director gets it, you know, and they she replies back to me with you in many cases with membership information, with pricing and everything. And that's done manually. That person actually stops the what does it look like in that automated world? I fill out the form. Then what happens using HubSpot that you mentioned? Kevin Page: [00:09:36] Yeah. So oftentimes we'll have, you know, some type of or nice design, esthetic marketing email that would go immediately following the form submission. Thanks so much for doing that. We'll have a member of our team reach out. We've just learned over the years that that's just a really important confirmation and touch point to ensure that that information has been received and that we're working on it. What we don't try to do is send a personalized outreach email immediately following a form submission. Right. That looks very automated. We kind of want to create that artificial gap between that form submission and when someone might want to reach out. And clubs are different on that approach. Ed Heil: [00:10:22] So you can actually set that time right. What you're saying so that it actually feels more natural, not like, hey, I just hit send on my form and next thing you know, in my inbox, I've got a hey, thanks for your interest. So again, what you're saying, I think, is depending on your club and how you feel about that stuff, you could make it, what, 24 hours? You can make it, two hours. You can make it 20 minutes. Is that right? Kevin Page: [00:10:46] That's right. Yeah. And a lot of that is how maybe exclusive you want to appear or if you, you know, are on a wait list and want to kind of create this sense of, you know, we'll get to it when we can. We're really busy or yeah, we're on top of it. An our after that form submission comes in, there's an automated email going out that looks like it's coming from the membership directors, inbox or email. Ed Heil: [00:11:12] So, the whole idea of being able to schedule, you know, how much time elapses between when someone submits that form and gets the email is, you know, can create that sense of where a lot of people feel a lot of, you know, membership directors that I speak with at least, are, you know, afraid that it's going to feel too needy. And like you said, you know, it can make it look like, you know, we're not in a big hurry here. We will get back to you on our time. The one thing that I do think is sort of important to think of is that a lot of times when we're filling out those forms, we expect to get that information fairly soon. I mean, that's just one of those things. I think that based on your club and how you handle things, you might want to look at it differently. But one of the other things I know you've you've seen a lot of success with Kevin in your work. Is also when that email goes out that thank you for submitting or for your interest in our club to then also provide whatever PDF for downloadable brochure or if you want to call it that, that you typically send to someone to include it with that email. Is that best practice, do you think? Kevin Page: [00:12:24] Yes, I do, and it might be easiest to look at that as like a marketing email versus a sales email, if you will. In a marketing email, has that more designed email look might be from membership at your club.com or some type of inbox like that. And it's thanks so much for submitting the form. Here's what you're here's the information you requested. Our team will be in touch shortly. That goes right away following the form submission. And in some cases, depending on how your website might be formatted, when they click that submit form, they could actually be taken to a web page or given that link right there, in that experience as well. But either way, give them that information right away would would be a best practice. But then to have that personalized follow up, come from you soon after, is something that we've found a lot of success in as well. And again, that's, that's really up to you on the cadence. You're probably right now grabbing those form submissions, you know, or a lot of people and copying and pasting some type of message in there anyway. And this automation is just trying to remove that, unnecessary, tedious work from your process. Ed Heil: [00:14:15] So once someone receives that information, and let's just keep in mind that there are there are a lot of variables, right? I mean, there are a lot of different, ways to set this up. There are a lot of different things you can include and include. So what we're saying is not like this is gospel. This isn't like there's only one way to do this. And the process is really totally customizable. But from that, if if I was the person who applies to the club, I get, I'm automatically sent that information. So now I've actually sort of optimized that time of the membership director that that they get it, they get a notification, right, that I have filled out that information. What happens next? Kevin Page: [00:15:01] Yeah. So in in some cases it's, it may not even be important to send that notification to the membership director if you're automating that introductory outreach. Because what we typically try to do when we're consulting with clubs is to keep that membership director focused on people who are qualified and who may be, you know, truly interested in looking at membership. And they're getting a lot of inquiries. And these introductory emails that are being sent in an automated fashion can help to understand, okay, who's actually responding to those? And once they respond, that pops up in their inbox, just like any email would. Right. And then they pick up the conversation from there and the automation shuts off. But if that if that, visitor, that prospect doesn't reply to that message, well, then another message could go out in a few days. And another. Right to the point where you probably stop and store that person in your database to be later nurtured, but you kind of, have have work them through that introductory process. They didn't show interest. And now, you know, they're earmarked for something later down the road. Ed Heil: [00:16:14] So let's talk about that later down the road. So, if I'm just recapping what you're saying, what I'm hearing you say is that, is that the membership director might only get notified if that person reaches out again, and which really, to what you were saying earlier, helps that membership director focus on the most qualified leads. I mean, how many times, you know, we see this all the time where we've been in meetings actually with clients, and the membership director gets up and says, oh, I've got to excuse myself because I have a tour that I'm supposed to do. And then they come back five minutes later saying, oh, they are, they were qualified. And you think, wow, well, that was sort of a waste, you know, waste of time and energy and, and that sort of thing. But like what you're saying. So what happens next then? So this is where, you know, we talk about this in the lead in of the, of this episode, which is we all like lists and anyone that's doing what we do, we love to try to help a club get to a point where they have a waitlist. You love having waitlists, but what happens when it's gone? The one thing that we see quite a bit is that you've had people through the years reach out in in some cases, one of our clients I was we were talking about the other day is that's a stack of about 700 names. Like looseleaf, she, she prints out all of the the people who have applied no idea who they are. But now by people filling out the form, capturing their email addresses when they download information, you have a database that's built, that's built up, not just in the cloud. I mean, this is businesses have been I mean, you've seen this. I mean, you can shed more light on this and I can because you've worked so much with us. But database of names of people who have expressed interest, what can be done with that kind of information? I mean, within, you know, the confines of the this discussion. Kevin Page: [00:18:10] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I mean, oftentimes we know the sort of cyclical nature of, of clubs, and the seasonality. Right. And, and when you might be making a push, you know, especially around golf or around other activities that you may have or sports or things like that, to do some type of re-engagement campaign, typically an email campaign to an audience like that. All the people who have expressed interest in the past but didn't reply to your emails or didn't take, didn't click that button to request a tour, right? They stalled out in the process after requesting information, and that's where they're stuck still. And instead of having this daunting task of, well, I have these 700 names, I guess I could start just ripping emails off to all of them. You have that stored in a database, and you can do it in a matter of clicks to say, let me just piece together a couple emails and shoot it off to this audience again and see what bounces back. See if some of these people, reengage or show interest again or, you know, maybe do take action to request that to or and and reengage in the process. Ed Heil: [00:19:22] And you had I mean I think this is kind of a just a quick but interesting story. Client of ours has a waitlist. And what they wanted to do is make sure that all the contacts that they also have just stay engaged. They sent an email out to those people saying, join our waitlist, which in full disclosure, I thought was a crazy idea, but it actually had some benefit. Kevin Page: [00:19:50] Yeah, yeah, they had some success with it. So this was about, fall in a, in a climate where winter, you know, outdoor winter golf is not a thing. And so the, the intention of the email was, yeah, join the waitlist. Now, if you're interested in playing golf next year. Right. Because if we get to spring and then you reach out, the waitlist is likely to be longer than it is now in October, November whenever we sent that email. Yeah. And there was some success there. So, just another, you know, creative thing that you can do when you have that database, and that list of names that you can easily, you know, the weather is nice outside in in March. Let's send an email to all the people who've downloaded the guide in the past year. Right. I mean, things like that can be done on a whim. Ed Heil: [00:20:38] Right? Exactly. And then even scheduling over time and, you know, one of the things that we we also talked about and touched on is. This is when you can start determining the most qualified prospects. What are the different ways that using using a tool, and again, not to pitch HubSpot. We talk about it, but it is a tool that we work with quite a bit. What can you do within a tool like HubSpot to really try to identify the most qualified prospects? Kevin Page: [00:21:08] Yeah, there's a few things, you know, with, with the email, marketing that we've been talking about, who's opening the email, who's clicking the email, who's doing that multiple times? You know, there's people who open an email ten, 12, 20 times. And that's all data that you can see in HubSpot, and do things with take action on, in addition to email. You know, what HubSpot allows us to do is, track visitors on the website as well. You can see which of those prospects are coming back to the website, what pages they're viewing, what, buttons they're clicking, what videos they're watching, to, you know, understand how engaged they might be and sort of also warm up your outreach to that person so it doesn't feel as cold, but touchpoint, and HubSpot is to take it one step further, also allows you to actually attribute points to some of those actions so you can give prospects a score based on how, how qualified they're perceived to be based on some of those things. Email opens, web visits, and information about them, like what type of membership were they engaged in, is it a social member engagement or a, golf member? When what might they have been interested in things like that? Ed Heil: [00:22:27] And to take that even one step further. And not all clubs have catering services or weddings and events, that are open to the public or, you know, some clubs obviously don't prioritize that, but some do. And so by segmenting even. Right. So And maybe if you could just do a quick high level, like how a club might do that and what you've seen as far as being able to capture all those contacts, people who are interested in golf, social and then banquets. Kevin Page: [00:23:00] Yeah, many of the clubs that we work with, also have a, you know, a catering goal in mind or an event, and wedding goal and. Ed Heil: [00:23:10] Monday golf, one of those things. Right? I mean, it's. Yeah. Kevin Page: [00:23:12] Yep. Golf outings. Exactly. Right. So one of the first things that that we oftentimes do in consulting is to establish that segmentation right away. Right. Are you interested in membership or weddings events, something along those lines. Just so we have that to know when we're segmenting and pulling lists for, you know what, we should do an email campaign that promotes, you know, our the fact that we added new tees in our course. Well, you know, you have a list of people that that's probably not appropriate for. And those are all the people who have reached out to you looking for, you know, a wedding venue. Right. So it's really easy to be able to segment those folks when you use an automation tools such as HubSpot. But there's a lot of, you know, a lot of opportunity for segmentation depending on what kind of data you're bringing in. And so we talked a lot about, you know, people submitting forms. But what we recommend when we implement a tool like HubSpot is if people are calling you, if they're walking in and visiting the club and asking for information, if a member referral, if a member refers someone, that all of that information get brought into this tool. So you have all of that prospect information there. You know what those people, what message those people want to hear from you. And you can, you know, attempt to deliver the right message to the right people at the right time, which is kind of the second part of all the, you know, lead management automation conversation that I alluded to earlier, which is more of that user experience and creating a user experience that, that your prospects will, you know, respect and, and hopefully take action on. Ed Heil: [00:24:58] And if you think about a lot of resorts, high end hotels, those types of experiences, they're also very good at this, very good at making sure you're getting the right information at the right time. So we've talked about, that conversion point, right, filling out the forms and automating that, taking some time off of your membership director, the nurturing of these of these contacts and staying in touch and trying to figure out who the best and most engaged member prospects are, and, you know, and also weeding out those that aren't qualified, which is is super valuable as well. Let's talk a little bit about the customer relationship management software, the CRM. And it's just, you know, if you could maybe just share some best practices, how it's useful, especially at a time when reporting is so important for boards. They want to know what's going on, what the health of the club is. How how are you seeing CRMs being used by clubs? Kevin Page: [00:25:57] Yeah. You know, the segmentation is something that I already touched on, so I won't go too deep there. But really understanding what people have done, to get into the CRM is a really important step. You know, we work with a lot of, organizations, clubs included, that have a list of names in their CRM or in spreadsheets or whatever they might be using, and they're not sure how they got that or what they might be interested in. So, you know, that's a really important step, is making sure that that when that, when you're collecting that, that it comes in with some of that helpful information. But then from there, it's, it's really important to understand what stage in the journey are, are these folks and, you know, are they have they reached out and inquired about, you know, the membership guide and that's where they start. Did they request a tour? They they took a tour and that's where they started. They didn't show up for their tour and that's where they're at. So building some of these milestones in this, the CRM tool helps you really understand where people are in that overall journey, which can help craft the messaging that's going to be most beneficial to them. Ed Heil: [00:27:08] Right. So just to put this in, what's in it for you as a membership director or as a as a general manager or someone who's trying to really understand what is the health of the club from a new member perspective, to be able to look into a CRM and to see how many people are at various stages of that consideration process or of your, new member onboarding process or application process to say, hey, we have actually, right now, you know, five people that have actually applied and that we're considering we're vetting these. Prospects right now. And let's just say it's five people just using, you know, round numbers at $50,000 a pop. Then you can see we have $150,000 in the pipeline. That's at the stage. People have maybe filled out a form and you might have a lot more there. But if it's a $50,000, you know, golf number prospect, you can actually start to see the health of that pipeline to say, how many people do we think we're actually going to bring on, or move on to our waitlist in the next month or three months or six months? And that information, and I'm sure if you're listening to this, you've sat in these meetings or had to prepare reports for the board so they can see that. And all this information is in one place. Kevin Page: [00:28:34] Yeah. Yeah, that's absolutely right. And, you know, where how many people have have toured this month? Really helpful metric to have, right. Just to know, how many people are doing that? How many people have applied? Where are people, in that journey is incredibly helpful for that pipeline development. But in addition to that, you can also take it a step further and say, what's the probability that will actually close these people based on data? So as you start using these tools, you can understand, well, we have five people right now who have completed a tour. Well, historically we closed about 20% of those people or 50% of those people. So that revenue that you just alluded to, you know, sometimes it can look, oh, wow, we're going to close $200,000 based on what's in our pipeline. But we try to take a realistic look at or you're probably not going to close everyone that's in your pipeline. And so you can look at these weighted sort of reports in order to, get some of that additional information and just, you know, an incredible amount of insights that you're able to pull out of some of these tools when you really get in and start making it a part of your everyday life in probability. Ed Heil: [00:29:51] I mean, what you're talking about, there is something that you know you can do today to a degree with, but it's usually in the form of a hunch like, oh yeah, and and usually it's inflated a little bit, like we closed 90% of the people who go through tour. Maybe. But wouldn't you rather have that data? And, you know, a lot of the things that we're talking about today are, are these are things that we've seen it before, where there membership directors who are tracking it, but in oddball places. I mean, I've seen everything from three by five index cards to something more common, which are just spreadsheets. Yeah, that is the membership. And you might be one of those people, if you're listening, is like you have a spreadsheet and it's fine. It's not like that doesn't work. But when you bundle all of this into one process and one umbrella, to be able to say, hey, we're bringing in new people, well, you know, who are filling out forms, we're nurturing them through email, and we're actually tracking them in, like you're saying, Kev, you're scoring those prospects to find the most, you know, to find the best prospects. All of a sudden this becomes really powerful and and way less manual. Someone isn't going through and filling out a spreadsheet. And that's maybe one of the biggest benefits. What are we missing, Kev? Kevin Page: [00:31:04] Well, another, you know, feature of really all of these CRM tools HubSpot included is task management as well. So, you know, not only does it do all the things you just mentioned, but also, you know, oh, this guy's this prospect I'm talking to is heading out of town or, you know, wants me to call them back in three months. You know, after they complete this home renovation project and, you know, cash flow returns in their life, and. All right, I'll set a task to follow up with this gentleman in three months. You know, it's it's all there. Instead of, again, trying to make sure that it's managed in a spreadsheet or written down somewhere. Post-it notes. You know, I've seen as well. So, again, just a really helpful way to, to kind of continue to move forward and lean into some of these tools that so many other clubs are leaning into and having success with. Ed Heil: [00:31:54] Glad you brought that up. I mean, I think that's one of the most powerful things is how do you track your follow up calls today? And by having something that actually feeds you a list of people that you're supposed to call every day or every week, however you want to set it up is is incredible, especially when it's based upon the most qualified prospects at the the the you know, your your foundation is, is feeding you. So, yeah. Super helpful. Anything else? What else are we missing? I know this is really high level, but, you know, the point today is to just hopefully help you think through other ways that you can do your job that make you more efficient, but also give you better data and better information that you can use to provide to your GM or your board or whomever that might be. Kevin Page: [00:32:48] Anything. Yeah. Yeah. A reporting is reporting as such a big part of this in making sure that you have intelligence in your reports, you understand? You know, what might be coming and where some of the concerns might be in terms of, you know, our pipelines getting really light. You know, maybe it's time to go, you know, do some additional outreach or, you know, attend some events, do some ads, you know, depending on what your club is, is interested in doing from that regard. But one of the, you know, one of the things that I'll, I'll say is I'm really passionate about this topic because I've seen so many clubs dump a lot of effort into generating leads. And not a lot of effort, and all businesses, not just clubs, not as much effort into managing those, and managing those properly. And so, you know, you end up with a database or a spreadsheet or whatever, with, you know, list of names that you you may not know a lot about, that you're not really following up with on a, on an ongoing basis. And it can be really difficult. And so when you're able to lean into a tool like this, you can really develop a well-oiled machine for outreach to the people who should be receiving automated outrea ch manual things, you know, when necessary. Right. So someone replies to an email that goes to a membership director. I can now take over the follow up and move people through different stages. Set tasks when I need to. So you're not sacrificing the experience of your prospects, or, you know, anyone that you might be communicating with in these tools? Which is, I think oftentimes a big, roadblock in some of these decisions is that we don't do things that way. That's impersonal. And these tools have come so far, in really making this, appear very personal. Also, you know, saving you a ton of time. So, you know, I'm really passionate about it because I've seen it work time and time again. Yeah. Ed Heil: [00:34:53] And, you know, to your point, it actually is now doing the opposite. It's actually making you seem more attentive and more personal and more connected, which is really what we all want. And, and probably one of the big fears that people have when trying to use this, this, this type of technology as part of their process. So, Kev, thanks. I think we're going to have more conversation around this at some point, hopefully before too long. So thanks for helping out, for being a part of it. Kevin Page: [00:35:25] Absolutely, I hope so. It was a pleasure. Ed Heil: [00:35:30] And thank you for listening. If you find this podcast helpful. Be sure to subscribe on iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, keep crushing your club marketing.