Cymene and Dominic report from Berlin, a land of feisty wasps (which are possibly bees) and haunted lakes. Then (16:38) we are so thrilled to welcome Queen of Ecodelia, Stacy Alaimo back to the podcast to discuss her brand new book The Abyss Stares Back: Encounters with Deep-Sea Life (U Minnesota Press, 2025). We talk about the history of the deep sea as a space of military, capitalist and scientific interest as well as a place of wonder and reflection. Stacy explains that the question of what it would take to provoke concern about life at the bottom of the sea inspired the project and why she became interested in creaturely aesthetics as a way of exploring the deep sea. We talk about the oceanic abyss as experimental space and foil for the extraterrestrial abyss and the critical potential of focusing on the richness of abyssal earthly life in contrast to the hypermasculinist mineral fantasies imposed on places like Mars. From there we talk about jellyfish and suffrage, the virtues of staying ignorant in the interpretive process, the limits of the sublime as analytic, and, of course, the importance of practicing ecodelia against the Anthropocene. What deep sea creature is Stacy eyeing for her next incarnation? You'll have to listen to find out!

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