Luca Ferrari on Building Bending Spoons: Extreme Ownership, Talent Science & Relentless Simplification
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Why does Luca Ferrari want to build “the best company there ever was”?
So we're gonna start this episode in a locked instance because we've just been talking off camera and I was like, God damn it, we need to start recording immediately. I didn't really want to think to start here, but uh you notice the app love and mug and then you're like, Oh, Ferrugi, and then you laughed. What do you think of Adam Farougi?
Well, it's great. I mean uniquely focused, uh ruthless and I mean it in a com you know, in a positive way when there is a goal, goes for it, very rational, effective. I mean ten out of ten on that in in those areas I think.
So when I published the episode that I did with him, I think I titled it like the best founder no one's ever heard of, because at the time he was running like, I don't know, like a hundred and fifty billion dollar market cap company with like 400 employees and they're printing like six billion in cash. And he kind of lays out exactly like his, we were talking about fanaticism before we started recording. It's like he's just fanatical. It's like the success of his company goes before almost anything. Or no, it does go before almost any anything in his uh life. He's just completely. Obsessed and committed, you know, to essentially like excellence. I think you share that trait with them. So we had lunch together probably six months ago.
I talked to you right after I was like, man, you got to do the show because I know a lot of founders. I don't know any other founders that think like you. One of the things that you said that I think everything else that all the other ideas flow from this is that you want to be the best in the world at what you do, even if that's not possible. Can you talk a little bit more about that?
I've always been uh kind of polarized in my in my interests, I I either choose to do something and then I'll try to uh match that out, try to be the best uh or part of the best team, or I will try not to do it at all. Or if it really has to be done, uh then uh I'll literally try to kind of just uh check the boxes for you know minimum commitment. All sorts of rewards. emotional and material are at the extremes. I I think I have a close to 10 out of 10 relationship with my wife. I think to me that's worth that's worth a hundred times more than having an adequate relationship with my wife. Same with with my job and my colleagues trying to build best company there ever was. And we understand that's aspirational and unlikely nearly impossible.
But I think that if we get close to that accomplishment, the the rewards, the fulfillment, the satisfaction, the learning along the way, uh financial rewards will be just exponentially greater than just doing well enough. And so I think you have limited time and energy. You want to find One or very few pursuits. Or to try to go all out and everything else keep it uh you know, eliminated if you can or keep it uh the bare minimum. So you just said you're trying to build the best company there ever was? Yeah, just again aspirationally. Don't take it it's not it's not meant to be arrogant. Uh I I know but we have a very slim chance, but just you know, the waking up in the morning and thinking we're not building a nice church or trying to build the greatest cathedral that anybody has ever built.
That's a lot more exciting to me. Gets you further, it's more fun, energizing. Better people will wanna work with you. And I think one of the big ways in which life is interesting is surrounding yourself with amazing people, better people than than than you are if possible. So do your co founders feel the same way? I mean you'd have to ask them. I think we probably for the most part, I'd say, yeah.
But is this something that you guys repeat to each other like throughout the company that are trying to build the best company ever?
We're not big on founders. I know this is maybe uh ironic to say, you know, given your your your podcast, but we we try to eliminate the idea of founder from this company as much as possible. We we think it distracts people from from the company. The company is a center.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
Why does Luca Ferrari want to build “the best company there ever was”?
0:02–19:22
2
How does Bending Spoons turn talent and raw drive into a hiring science?
19:22–37:41
3
What is “extreme ownership” and how does it shape the company culture?
37:41–56:21
4
Why does Bending Spoons give employees more work than they can comfortably handle?
56:21–1:13:59
5
How does the firm eliminate job titles and simplify roles?
1:13:59–1:31:46
6
What does “relentless simplification” look like in practice?
1:31:46–1:50:22
7
How did Bending Spoons acquire and transform Evernote?
1:50:22–2:01:00
8
Why does Luca prioritize logic over data when making big decisions?
2:01:00–2:01:24
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