Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Lauren Laverne here. We're taking our Easter break, so until we're back on air, we're showcasing a few programmes from our archive. As usual, the music's been shortened for rights reasons. This week's guest is the former football manager Arsene Wenger. I cast him away in 2020. MUSIC PLAYS My castaway this week is Arsene Wenger.
He's spent his life in professional football, first as a player, then as a manager, known for his extraordinary staying power and equally extraordinary success. Most coaches' tenure lasts a few seasons.
Chapter 2: Who is Arsène Wenger and what is his significance in football?
He led Arsenal for 22 years through 1,235 matches, transforming the club and British football in the process. His upbringing on the French border with Germany in the shadow of World War II instilled both his legendary discipline and his passion for sport. Football was a pleasure, an escape and the non-stop topic of conversation at the bistro his parents ran.
A thinker as well as a player, by the time he became a professional manager, he'd studied politics and economics and spoke several languages. None of it went to waste at Arsenal. His revolutionary approach to conditioning famously brought ballet and broccoli to the Gunners. He challenged the Premier League's inward-looking culture, recruiting new talent from all over the world.
Moreover, he showed that success and style can coexist on the pitch. He says, I am a facilitator of what is beautiful in man. I define myself as an optimist. I can be described as naive in that sense, but it allows me to believe, and I am often proven right. Arsene Wenger, welcome to Desert Island Discs.
Thank you very much.
We'll start with beauty then. What is beautiful about football?
Beautiful is what is transformed into art. Art is supposed to get you out of your daily world that is quite tough. It's boring sometimes, repetitive, you know, and I think art transports you in a different world. And that's what football can do and sport can do in general.
And that idea of you believing in your dream, in that art behind the football, what does that bring to the experience for you?
Well, for me, it's as well that you want always to improve, you know, because in art, perfection doesn't exist. And basically, sport is to do... With your body, what your brain wants. And that's a specific intelligence that not everybody has. So people who have that quality to express what their brain wants, you need to encourage them to express what they can give.
And most of the time, you need somebody who helps you to do that. And I'm the guy. Not only can I help individuals to do that, but I can help a collectivity to do that.
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Chapter 3: What does Arsène Wenger find beautiful about football?
I think the impact for me was that you're never completely happy because you never do well enough. And the religion makes you feel always a bit guilty because the Catholic religion is like that. But overall, the desire not to be scared to work.
You're a post-war baby, of course, and being on the border, the Alsace had suffered a huge amount in the years just before you arrived. Many locals were conscripted by the German army and forced to fight against their own people. And the trauma would still have been very fresh in your childhood. Were you aware of what the community had been through?
At the early childhood, no, but later, yes, of course. And my father was one of the guys who was incorporated by force by the Germans. And as a French guy, because Germany invaded France, he did fight with the Germans on the Russian front, you know, and came back late, 45, with 52 kilos, and was one year between life and death. But he never talked about it.
But in the bistro, you could listen to stories and... Overall, we were encouraged, honestly, in our young age to hate Germans. But finally, it created more curiosity for me. And I wanted to know what were these guys who live on the other side of the Rhine. And as soon as I could, I went to Germany and I discovered that there are people like you and me who just try to have a good life.
It's time for your second disc. What are we going to hear and why have you chosen this today?
John Lennon, Imagine, because I think it's a great song and Beatles are like a good football player. They make simple what looks very complicated, you know. And it's as well part of my childhood because suddenly... This was the modern music when I was a child.
Of course, today people will laugh at me when I say that, but for me, people with long hair suddenly who played this kind of music was revolutionary and did smoke, dope. It was inconceivable in my childhood, and that created a lot of interest.
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try. No hell below us. Above us only sky.
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Chapter 4: What were the challenges Arsène Wenger faced at Arsenal?
The sense that when you're a teenager, you want as well to be loved by others. And because I was good, everybody wanted me to play and were happy to be my friends. And I feel I belonged to the community and the people encouraged me always. You know, it was enjoyment because this was... 65, 66. It was a positive part after war because there were no job problems, no crisis, no COVID.
Everybody had a good future. So it was optimism. It was dancing and playing and drinking. And that's what life was about.
You said that you were very motivated to win. You wanted to make the village proud. How did you cope when you didn't win? Were you a good loser?
I was a very bad loser. And honestly, I'm still today. Having said that, in our job, if you're a good loser, you don't go far. But I suffered a lot physically from hating the defeat, you know. And every defeat, every big defeat is a scar in my heart. And sometimes I thought I would not survive in this job because I suffered really physically from defeats.
How did it manifest?
I adapted because I started at 33 years of age. I was at the top level. So maybe if you start at a very young age, you adapt and your body adjusts to it.
It's time for some more music, Arsene. Tell us about your next choice today.
My next song is Léo Ferré. He's a French poet, singer from the 60s. And the song is Avec le temps. That means with time. What I like is the poet that is in this song. But what I don't share, it says basically time is a healer. But time is a healer as well of love. And that you finish alone in your bed and you don't love anymore. And I don't believe that. But the song is great.
Avec le temps Avec le temps va, tout s'en va On oublie le visage et l'on oublie la voix Le cœur quand ça bat plus C'est pas la peine d'aller chercher plus loin Faut laisser faire et c'est très bien Leo Ferré and Avec le temps.
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Chapter 5: How did Arsène Wenger's upbringing influence his career?
I've chosen this because I have that in common with some people I cherish very much in France and as well because, évidemment, it tells you a little bit that we still love each other, but it's not exactly the same like before, you know. It shows that if you don't take care of love, it slowly vanishes.
On danse encore sur les accords qu'on aimait tant Evidemment Evidemment On rit encore pour des bêtises comme des enfants
France Gal and Evidemment. Arsene Wenger, you moved to Japan to manage Nagoya Grand Pass 8 before being headhunted by Arsenal in 1996. When you arrived, you were considered an unknown quantity by many, certainly in the press, and they quite rudely wrote about Arsene who. How did the fans and players receive you?
Well, I would say there was skepticism around me, but you have to accept when you go abroad, you know, you don't expect the red carpet. It has changed now, but at the time, you're first to prove that you have the level to be there. And honestly... I said always to the players as well, look, you come from abroad, you come here. If it is to do what a local guy does, stay at home.
You have to be conscious that you have to do more. And I was in that mode of thinking. And in fairness, I think the club was quite crazy to appoint a guy like me because it was one of the most traditional clubs in England. And to take a completely unknown guy, I think they were crazy, these guys. But I had the advantage to benefit from it.
Yes, and you brought in many innovations, including persuading the team to give up their Mars bars for broccoli. How did that go down?
Well, it was players who were all 30, but they were intelligent and they thought if I could extend their career. By doing what I told them, maybe I would do it. And they tried, you know. I remember going to the first game, they chanted at the back of the coach, we want our mouth bars. And so at halftime, we were 1-0 up and nobody talked. And it was like at a funeral.
And I said to Gary Lewin, the physio, what's wrong? Why does nobody say a word in here? He said, they're hungry.
LAUGHTER
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