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Discovery

The Life Scientific: Helen Hastie

08 Jun 2026

Transcription

Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.

Chapter 1: What is the vision for future robot-human interactions?

0.031 - 27.052 Jim Al-Khalili

Hello. Let's start with a quick test. If I ask you to conjure up an image of a useful and reliable robot helper, what springs to mind? Some of you might be thinking of those industrial robotic arms used in car assembly lines, or perhaps an explosive ordnance bot, the remote-controlled devices used by bomb disposal teams. Others might be focusing on fictional robots, R2-D2 from Star Wars perhaps.

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27.512 - 50.973 Jim Al-Khalili

Not just a tool, but a machine that can actually interact with humans. One that is communicative, responsive and even trustworthy. In fact, those sorts of relationships are the focus for today's guest. Helen Hastie is a professor of human-robot interaction and head of the School of Informatics at the University of Edinburgh. Her mission is to develop robots that don't just think, but connect.

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51.533 - 65.374 Jim Al-Khalili

Systems that will competently perform their tasks, but which can also hold a natural conversation and explain themselves clearly to their human colleagues. Although, as we'll hear, that's not quite as straightforward as Star Wars made it seem.

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65.354 - 90.687 Jim Al-Khalili

Helen's career has taken her from developing early dialogue systems, the ancestors of today's generative AI, to working on sophisticated bots that can serve coffee with a side of small talk, teach struggling kids with empathy, or provide calm and confident decisions as triage nurses. She's also driven some of the UK's flagship robotics initiatives, not least as co-lead of the National Robotarium.

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90.667 - 97.894 Jim Al-Khalili

Ultimately, her ethos is robotics for all, shaping a future where robots aren't just in our world, they're part of it.

Chapter 2: How has Helen Hastie's career shaped her views on robotics?

98.375 - 102.219 Jim Al-Khalili

Ideally, a welcome one. Professor Helen Hastie, welcome to The Life Scientific.

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102.419 - 103.079 Helen Hastie

Thanks for having me.

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103.5 - 115.712 Jim Al-Khalili

Now, Helen, a big part of your work is getting people to trust and welcome robots in everyday settings. What would you say is the biggest misconception people have that might put them off having a robot colleague?

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116.232 - 141.784 Helen Hastie

So we see in the media and in sci-fi movies, these robots that are highly functioning, that can do many, many jobs and are social and cognitively quite intelligent. Now, we are far from that. We do have some robots that can perform very, very well on specific tasks, but these tend to be very narrow tasks. So we are quite a long way from these all functioning, intelligent robots.

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141.764 - 157.36 Jim Al-Khalili

I suppose a lot of us hear the word robot and do think of those humanoid versions from sci-fi movies that can do everything, including take over the world, of course. But I gather there are actually quite a few issues with making robots in human form.

157.66 - 171.583 Helen Hastie

Sure. So robots that generally look like humans, not necessarily those with legs, but in some kind of human shape, can be really useful for certain settings. But we have to be really careful. There's a phenomenon called the uncanny valley.

Chapter 3: What misconceptions do people have about robots?

172.284 - 184.684 Helen Hastie

And as robots become closer to looking like humans, particularly in terms of detailed looks, this can actually be quite unsettling. So it's good that robots look a bit like us, but Not too much like us.

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184.704 - 190.249 Jim Al-Khalili

I mean, so is there a sweet spot of how human a robot should look if it's going to be accepted?

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190.689 - 207.504 Helen Hastie

Yes, most definitely. And it's very dependent on the task. So robots in the home, maybe it's good they look a bit like us. But robots working in factories or warehouses or stacking shelves, it's actually better if they look like they know what they're doing in terms of the function that they're designed to do.

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207.825 - 209.946 Jim Al-Khalili

So having wheels, for example, rather than legs.

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210.207 - 210.687 Helen Hastie

Exactly.

210.747 - 233.398 Jim Al-Khalili

Yes. Yeah. Thinking about trustworthiness in robots does make me wonder about the current concerns around over-reliance on large language models, like chat GPT, for example, having influence over vulnerable youngsters or isolated individuals. Is there an element of risk to making robots more trustworthy, as in the more we trust them, the greater the risk of manipulation?

233.783 - 238.069 Helen Hastie

So it's very important that we install the appropriate amount of trust.

Chapter 4: Why is the appearance of robots important for trust?

238.329 - 253.851 Helen Hastie

So it's important not to overtrust robots and it's also important not to undertrust them. For example, a robot that's used in surgery that is highly accurate, maybe more so than a human. It's really important that we do adopt these robots if they are capable of performing properly.

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253.831 - 259.24 Jim Al-Khalili

So in some cases, we should trust them because they've been designed to do something better than we can.

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259.78 - 268.194 Helen Hastie

But it's also important not to overtrust. So you shouldn't overtrust an autopilot in a ship, for example. It's important that you always have the human eye on it.

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268.394 - 278.59 Jim Al-Khalili

Yes, indeed. So, Helen Hastie, do you remember where this fascination with AI and robots first started for you? Were you particularly into tech or sci-fi as a kid?

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278.992 - 291.56 Helen Hastie

Well, I grew up in a house that had early computers. My father was an early adopter. We had Commodore PC, for example, in the house. And he was always putting together computers. So I think from an early age, I was surrounded by tech.

Chapter 5: What challenges exist in creating trustworthy robots?

292.321 - 296.19 Jim Al-Khalili

You grew up in Aberystwyth in Wales. Tell me a bit about your family.

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296.542 - 308.96 Helen Hastie

My father was a lecturer in international relations and my mother in classics. And I'm the youngest of four. Most of us have PhDs in the family, to put it like that.

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308.98 - 326.025 Jim Al-Khalili

But across a wide range of disciplines, clearly. I gather you felt rather lost at school because you love both science and languages. And it didn't feel like there was a way to follow both paths. But then a lightbulb moment. Tell me about discovering linguistics.

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326.225 - 342.494 Helen Hastie

So when you're 16, you have to decide what three A-levels you're going to do. And I wanted to do all the languages and all the sciences. And I think my father could see a bit of a conflict inside me. So he bought me this encyclopedia of language. This really caught my attention.

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Chapter 6: How do robots learn to interact with humans effectively?

342.814 - 347.042 Helen Hastie

And linguistics being the science of language really kind of found a sweet spot with me.

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347.643 - 359.404 Jim Al-Khalili

Okay. So off you went to study AI and linguistics at Edinburgh, followed by a master's in computational linguistics at Georgetown University in the United States. What drew you to America?

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359.873 - 371.271 Helen Hastie

So I'm a half American, so I wanted to study out there. And I was given a fellowship for, believe this or not, Welsh females studying science at master's level in America.

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371.691 - 372.252 Jim Al-Khalili

Excellent.

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372.392 - 376.098 Helen Hastie

Very niche. I'm not sure there was many of us. So I got that fellowship and off I went to Georgetown.

376.118 - 384.531 Jim Al-Khalili

Right, right. You returned to Edinburgh to do your PhD in speech and language technologies. Then you decided to take a year out.

385.051 - 402.376 Helen Hastie

I married Stuart in the year 2000 and we took a year-long honeymoon, which we were very fortunate to do, travelling around the world, which included going over land in a truck across Africa and then Asia and Australia. And then we stopped off in the States having a degree in technology.

Chapter 7: What insights were gained from the Robo Barista experiment?

402.396 - 417.104 Helen Hastie

I thought I'd be quite quick to get a job. But unfortunately, that was the time of the dot-com bubble burst. So everything was basically shuttered up. On the west coast of the US. So then we moved over to the east coast. And that's when I got a research position at AT&T Research Labs.

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417.865 - 428.068 Jim Al-Khalili

One of your biggest projects there was called How May I Help You? One of the first truly interactive voice response systems. First of all, what was it designed to do?

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428.453 - 448.883 Helen Hastie

So IVRs, as we call them, were pretty terrible back then. Basically, most of them would allow you to say things like say one for billing, say two for technical support. So not a very rich interaction, not much more benefit than pressing the button on the phone. So how may I help you was different in that it was an open question.

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449.404 - 463.557 Helen Hastie

And so the system had to understand a whole range of different responses and then channel the customer to the appropriate department. What I was doing was I was working with Marilyn Walker and we were looking at how we evaluate these systems.

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Chapter 8: How can robots improve quality of life for the elderly?

463.537 - 478.002 Jim Al-Khalili

I mean, that advance was quite revolutionary at the time, an ancestor, if you like, to the voice assistants we use today, you know, like Siri and Alexa and so on. But doing this 25 years ago, what sort of difficulties did you run into?

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478.741 - 495.363 Helen Hastie

So we called them spoken dialogue systems, and we would divide them into different parts. So you would have the speech recognizer understanding the words, and then you need to convert those words into meaning and decide what to say next, and then what the words would be, and then turn that into a computer voice.

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496.144 - 508.461 Helen Hastie

Nowadays, it's all one big end-to-end system, and it's trained on much data, large compute. So it's tackled in a different way, but back then we had to divide into each component, and each component had their own challenges.

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508.441 - 516.63 Jim Al-Khalili

And I mean, we should say this sort of voice assistant technology is quite different from today's all singing, all dancing, large language models. Correct. Can you explain how?

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517.611 - 522.857 Helen Hastie

We didn't have the data back then. We were using language models, but they weren't large.

523.277 - 535.731 Jim Al-Khalili

OK, well, a couple of years later, Helen, you joined Lockheed Martin, also in New Jersey on the East Coast, and you developed an onboard AI assistant for ships called Suzy. Tell me about that.

536.133 - 561.647 Helen Hastie

At Lockheed Martin, it was all about applications and putting these systems where they would be used and adopted. So one of these was on a ship and it was using the intercom and it was sensorised. So you could call up Susie on the intercom and it would tell you, for example, the starboard engine temperature. So the important thing here was the equipment was in situ and it may be of use.

561.787 - 583.487 Jim Al-Khalili

OK, well, having a named AI assistant like Susie helping you control a vehicle does have slight overtones of hell from 2001 A Space Odyssey. I'm afraid I can't do that, Dave. That's my best hell voice. So do you have any reassuring words for people concerned that we're hurtling towards that sort of AI dystopia?

583.94 - 597.141 Helen Hastie

So in critical situations, we put in certain guardrails. It's important that we test them properly. But the technology is advancing so rapidly that we really have to think about this now.

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