DSPN - Devlin Sports Podcast Network
Rugby Roundtable: Ardie Savea’s Next Move And All Blacks 10 Debate
22 Apr 2026
Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Lachlan is in my area saying, can you check that John has still got a brain inside that skull? Because he said with the Hurricanes at actual full strength, he said the Chiefs at full strength, you can't tell me that the Crusaders side, this is what he's saying, is actually better than those sides.
He's not my guy. He's off contract at the end of this year. But no, he's not my guy because when you do have injuries, a good coach can find a way. They were 19-0 up against the force. A good coach wins that game.
Damien McKenzie is without doubt the most influential player in Super Rugby in terms of turning the game around. Welcome to the DSPN. John Walker wins the 1500m gold medal at the Olympic Games. The Olympics have won by 29 points tonight. The Devlin Sports Podcast Network.
It's that time again, it's the Rugby Roundtable time again. John Day joins me, 20 years in the saddle. The voice of reason. the hurt locker, the razor blades, the peeing blood from your eyeballs back at school today, Mr. Watson. Before we start, 2.30, Loft Bar Christchurch this Saturday. Myself and Lachlan are going to be down there and want you to join us. If you love the DSPN, support us.
Thank you. We want to say that thank you by shouting you a couple of beers. Loft Bar, 2.30 on Saturday. We have a lot to get through here, lads, so let's not muck around. We want to talk about where does Ardy go next in terms of Super Rugby?
Whitney Hanson, is that a seismic change in the way that the Black Ferns are going to play and the future of the Black Ferns after dismantling Canada, which we couldn't do last year? Riley Higgins, and much wailing and angst and gnashing of teeth about the fact that this guy is leaving. The whole letting New Zealand players play overseas.
We've had a lot of comments after speaking with Ted and with Brent to be last week. Auckland is not a league town anymore. You said that last week, Mark. We're going to debate that as well. And if we can have time, I want to touch on the Chiefs and the Canes and just what... that match means to both of you in terms of the intensity of it, in terms of preparation for test level.
If we get matches like that, is it going to be good enough for Dave Rennie and his crew to get these parts? But let's start straight away with the Riley Higgins thing, because just uppermost of mind at the moment. A couple of thoughts on this before I ask you, Mark. I get what people are saying. It's a shame when yet another young player goes.
But I think that this guy, no disrespect to him, is largely unproven in New Zealand. He's had a few games. He's got a lot of potential. He got injured. I don't know what New Zealand rugby is meant to do here. He's got Scottish ancestry, so clearly he has a pathway to play for Scotland and doesn't have to sit a three-year stand-down down because he hasn't played for New Zealand.
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Chapter 2: What does Ardie Savea's next move mean for Super Rugby?
And you've just got to look for the next guy coming through.
Yeah, very sensible, well-spoken. I'm nodding my head toward that, John.
Yeah, he doesn't back himself to be an All Black, is what it says to me, or else he feels like he's really, really Scottish. It's one or the other, and we've seen this before with other players.
Chapter 3: How is Whitney Hansen changing the Black Ferns' approach?
I think Sean Maitland went over to Scotland. He looked at the landscape of New Zealand rugby. He was like, I'm probably not going to be an All Black's outside back, and if I am, I'll probably play five tests, and that'll be me. I won't be able to play for anyone else. So he went to Scotland, played for them. Johnny McNichol.
Same thing, went up to the Northern Hemisphere, played for Wales, probably said, I'm not good enough to be an All Black. And I'm thinking Riley Higgins is sitting there behind a couple of All Blacks in the Hurricanes midfield. He's what, 23, 24? Yeah, something like that.
Chapter 4: What are the implications of Riley Higgins leaving New Zealand Rugby?
And he's thinking, man, I'm almost in my prime. Am I going to sit around in New Zealand, maybe play one or two tests off the bench behind Geordie Barrett for the next five years? Or am I going to go up to Scotland, maybe be a starter for them at a World Cup and play Six Nations, which is an amazing tournament. So, you know, no skin off our nose.
Chapter 5: Should New Zealand players be allowed to play overseas?
We're just losing more people in their prime, aren't we? Fihi Finianganofo, 23 as well. We've seen Lester Whanganuku do it, but he was always coming back to be an All Black for the World Cup. So he's a bit different. But this just tells me old Riley didn't back himself. Does this...
you know, confirm to you that we need to start opening up the doors to all the super rugby sides as well. I keep banging this drum, I know, but Mark, do you agree with that, that if you play super rugby in New Zealand, you should be able to play for any of the franchise sides in the comp?
I've always been a believer in that. I think as long as you're playing in the same competition, look, sometimes people just want freshness. They just want a different environment. They just want to hear a different voice, live in a different climate, have a bit more of a rugby experience. Now, Australia, much different to New Zealand.
Chapter 6: What does the Chiefs vs Hurricanes match tell us about test-level rugby?
Well, climate-wise, it potentially is, but I think it would be great for the competition. You know, it is frustrating that tribes... When, say, a lot of the super rugby sides are at full strength and you look at the bench and you, man, think that bench is incredible. And then you look at other sides and you go, boy, they're struggling to put out a starting 15.
And, you know, I think actually spreading that talent around or at least allowing players to decide to go and play somewhere else is not a bad thing. And look, if they can get a better deal and make a little bit more money playing for the Reds or playing for the Western Force, so be it. I think it's just archaic. I mean, we keep going on about it, you know.
Allow players to play across Super Rugby.
Chapter 7: How are the Crusaders performing this season?
Allow players, once they've spent a certain amount of time in Super Rugby, to head off overseas and possibly be eligible for the All Blacks.
It all just makes sense, doesn't it? The other thing is that this lends to me a draft system, JD, where every year you can pick your 25 players, your first 25 players for your franchise and everyone else goes into a pool and then the other teams can have first dibs on them.
I keep going back to a situation we had years ago where I think the Crusaders had the four best first fives in the country or something and they're all sitting there. And I can understand the selfishness of a super rugby coach because your job is on the line if you don't actually perform.
But you imagine a draft every year where all of a sudden names like this are available and then the other teams can come and get them.
That'd be exciting. It'd be exciting.
It'd be a day in the calendar that you'd all look forward to and everyone would be sitting around. Yeah, I mean, the TAB could make money out of it.
It's a professional competition. Like, people used to always get angry in the early days. Oh, the Crusaders are stealing everyone else's players, you know, and building this super team of no homegrown talent. Well, everyone does that in Super Rugby now. We're beyond that.
So let's join every other global competition in the world, English Premier League, NBA Basketball, NRL Rugby League, where just all the players are shared amongst all the teams. And that's just the way professional sport works, right?
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Chapter 8: What is the debate around the All Blacks No. 10 jersey?
Sorry. I just want to say, Martin, I think what's happened, and I've said this in the past, this is the problem with rugby, is that All Blacks have become so top-heavy that we've actually moved from being rugby fans to All Blacks fans.
I think that's probably fair. I think there's a good case to mount for that.
I think there's a big difference. I mean, look at how poor that crowd was in Hamilton for that top of the table clash. Look how poor that crowd was in Wellington for the Blues and the Hurricanes game. You look at Eden Park on Friday night, and it was. It was a cemetery with chips, wasn't it, against the Highlanders?
Okay, and you've got a sellout for the Super Run, but you've also got a sellout in Wellington for the Warriors this weekend against the Dolphins. Let's finish with Whitney Hanson because, God, every time I say that, I keep Whitney Houston.
Whitney Houston, yeah.
How many people made that mistake? A lot. Whitney Hanson, obviously daughter of Sir Shag. And I was very critical of the Black Ferns last year and their attitude before they went to the World Cup. And I think it was entirely fair that it's in our DNA to play sevens rugby from our own 22.
And Jamie Wall wrote a brilliant article on RNZ accusing them of playing video game rugby and thinking that they were a lot better and could out-sprint teams and out-try teams. And in actual fact, John Mitchell said to us on the program that they're the easiest team to play against. Whitney Hanson turned that around on the weekend. Did she though, John?
That one victory, the way that the Black Ferns played, the way they came back, just keeping to the structures and actually playing test match rugby till they had the opportunities, is what O says, to actually take advantage of their go forward and use the ball. She seems to me to be making a fundamental change with that side, up here as much as anything else.
Massively. And she had an opportunity to be head coach earlier this year. And turned it down because she worked under Wayne Smith at the last Rugby World Cup and saw how he did things and wasn't quite ready to make that step up. Under Alan Bunting, I think he's more of a culture guy. And the team were on a high, right? They were world champions.
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