DSPN - Devlin Sports Podcast Network
Who WE think belongs in the All Blacks | Rugby Roundtable
03 Jun 2026
Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: What is the significance of selecting the All Blacks team?
Leinster ended up putting Rico Ioane on the wing so they found out in a year what New Zealand rugby fans have known for four or five years that he's not a centre.
I don't want to fanny round with these three tests I think it's really important Dave Rooney's going to have to get an all-black team that he is confident of playing in that first test against South Africa and so he's going to want to see these guys under load.
I just get a feeling as we go throughout this team throughout the morning by the end of it I think John's pretty much going to pick an entire Crusaders team.
Welcome to the DSPN.
John Walker wins the first The Devlin Sports Podcast Network.
DSPN, welcome to it again. Roundtable time it is. And this time of the year, well, we start selecting our All Black side, do we not? And we talked about this on the weekend, that we might lay down 34 names for you ahead of the Super Rugby qualifying finals. And we'll be readjusting this all the way through to the first test, obviously, against France in July. John Day joins us.
20 years in the saddle. Broadcasting experience. Highly qualified journalist. Good mate. Welcome back, mate.
Yeah, good to be here.
Mark Watson at school yesterday. doing maths class. All of a sudden I just have this picture of trying to teach a baboon to play tennis. What is that, you doing calculus? Integrated equations?
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Chapter 2: How is the forward split determined for the All Blacks?
You know, I think we got so caught up at one point just in scrummaging, just in technique, just in the ability to hold a scrum.
and i think that was an area we were getting beaten with you know i go back to the days i still get a bit sort of romantic about it romanticize a bit about it but i love the steve mcdowell type players back in their day just sort of those rampaging bullocking runners and we've got that in our hookers but i think we just needed at times to see that in our front row props and um i think off the two under last year i think that's one area of his game where we did see massive improvement
i i'll counter that with saying that in 2019 we got we took ball playing props to japan and we left owen franks at home yeah and we really suffered because of that so you know to me the big the big tractor on the side who's anchoring the scrum at tight he doesn't need to do anything apart from that does he really i mean tight head's important like you're getting squeezed in like that with a ton of force coming both ways like that that is the hurt locker
If you want to bleed through your eyeballs, try being a tight head prop for once in your life rather than going for a run. So definitely, that's all that matters. Scrummaging in that position and everything else is second, but loose head, you can be a bit more creative with your ball play.
Look, I mean, none of us know what playing tight head is.
I went down to Chiefs training once and got put in the scrum machine and Jared Hoyata behind my butt and man, my eyes did pop out of my head. And my back just absolutely bent. And yeah, there was a few like, let's not do that again afterwards kind of chats. So it's not a good place to be.
I concur everything you say about Ethan De Groot. I mean, I just am in love with this guy as a player. I think he's been one of the form players in Super Rugby, Mark. And I know that, you know, the flashy winger who scores the tries is always going to get the recognition. But this guy here, if you pick the top three players in Super Rugby, it'd be hard to leave him off that list at the moment.
Yeah, I agree with you. And again, in a team that hasn't been going particularly well either, I think he's been the one guy that if you were to say which one of these Highlanders you'd end up having in your Super Rugby 15 of the season, he would be in there. And obviously...
Lucas Casey might be another one and we can probably potentially talk about him a little bit later on but there's been few and far between but yeah look he plays and that's a sign of a good player isn't it when you can still stand up when you can still step up on a team that maybe doesn't necessarily have the depth or the strength across the park but still be dominant
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Chapter 3: What factors influence the selection of props for the All Blacks?
You know, you talked then about the tight head. We don't need mobility. We just need that rock solid. But we need nobility. We need that hooker to be that extra loose forward at times, that guy to get across the advantage line, to play like a number eight. And I think Hamoa, Takia, how... are very similar in terms of what they do, obviously with Cody Taylor.
And so I just think we make sure that we've got three sort of similar players in terms of what they can offer.
We're going to need that, particularly heading to South Africa. It's a fair call. And I also like rewarding Super Rugby form. And Asafo to me has really stepped up this year. So whatever they've told him to go and do, he's gone away and done it, hasn't he?
Oh, massively. Yeah, he's on fire. And George Bell's injury came at the wrong time because he was on fire too when he got a calf three to four weeks out at the business end of the season. So I think on form, you've got to give it to Oumuamua. But that does give me the heebie-jeebies a bit. Him coming on with 20 minutes to go in a massive game. You're on the line.
You need a good line-out throw and you need to score a try. Is he the guy you're going to bag on to get it right?
George Bell? I mean, Bell was awful when he was given his opportunity in terms of line-out strike.
But they're both very good around the field. I think they're very similar players, but Al Moore on form. He's on the paddock, so you give it to him.
To me, if he's fit, Bell, all four go to South Africa.
Who's your starting hooker at this point in time? Cody Taylor. Definitely? Yeah, Cody Taylor.
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Chapter 4: Who are the top contenders for the loose forward positions?
That's the foundation of your game is that front row, and I'm confident looking at these names.
Yeah, they've all done their time, and some of them don't have the All Blacks test next to their name, but they've got a hell of a lot of super rugby experience. So, yeah, I'm happy with that, that we can compete, and especially at hooker. Like, that's world class.
depth right there that's four guys who are test match ready for sure and even without Scott Barrett now with the locks who is a test match hardened man a big body who you do need in South Africa Fabian Holland we're not going to have him for the first three tests are we and hopefully for South Africa but there's still some depth there that we're going to discuss
Yeah, let's do that now. So let's get into our locks. And as I said, Rob had Vahie, Lorde, Tuipulutu and Sam Derry. The first three, Mark, I think are absolutely cement. Derry, I think we can debate, but I actually think Lorde and Vahie to me are my starters for that first test and Patrick on the bench. I think that's written.
No, I've got a slightly different take on that. I would start at law. I would start Sam Derry and Josh Lord and I had to provide my six for that first test while it's a TD at eight and Hardy at seven. I just think we need a bit more height at six. I think Sam Derry is a very, very good footballer. He played really well for the All Blacks, obviously out for most of last season with an injury.
He's played a game. We talk a little bit, don't we, about De Groot in a Highlanders team. I think there's been only a couple of players that have stood up for the Blues all year, and I think Sam Derry is one of them. I think Patrick Tupeloto definitely off the bench. I do wonder whether we maybe need a fifth lock at the expense of possibly one loose forward.
Who that is, well, that's the discussion we need to have. Your four?
Or five? Yeah, they are my four. I like Jamie Hanna putting the pressure on him. Naito Akoi played the best game of his career last weekend. He was immense. What is it? 21 tackles, no misses. Incredible skill set that he has as well. So much of what the Chiefs did to the Blues when they put 50 on them. Give it to Akoi. So many defenders swamped on him. And he's got that no-look out the back pass.
to just unleash their outside backs. I thought, like, he's been another guy, or I'm like, oh, you're the fun guy on the team. Oh, that's cool. But shit, he can actually play as well. So he's knocking on the door big time.
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Chapter 5: How does Rieko Ioane's performance impact his selection?
Yeah, look, I agree with that. My question is, who starts in the sixth jersey for us?
OK, we'll get to that in a second. But that's the bigger question for me. So, you know, you're talking like Max. Max would love this discussion as well. He loves height, doesn't he, Max Dead? What he wants is he wants four aerial combat players, and I get it, because so much of it also. And when we go to South Africa, be prepared for a lot of bombs. Why the hell not?
If I'm them, it's a weakness in the All Blacks over the last couple of years. That's what I'm doing. First five minutes, I'm throwing it up and seeing whether or not these guys have trained and practised.
Yeah, well, you can see why they're bringing Shannon Frizzell back, can't we? Because we're all struggling to really come up with, nah, that's definitely the guy at six. Sam Appendi's my guy, but he just hasn't... proved himself at that level. He's getting more and more games for the Chiefs. Rumours are that he might be heading overseas, so whether that stops him from getting selected, who knows?
Then you've got a guy like Luke Jacobson, who's, I think, more of a seven, but can play six. And then Blackadder, who's a bit of a... He's getting that reputation of not being fit enough or being able to stay fit to play six. So he's got all these guys who are about... You think they're pretty good at six, but no-one is like...
Well, let's go to the loosies then, people. We've decided our four locks, Avai, Lord, Patrick and Derry. Mark, are we agreeing on that?
Yeah, we're going with four, absolutely.
So then the loose forwards. And again, I'll go back to Rob's team. Savia, Jacobson, Satiti, Lakai, Fina and Parker. I'm locking in Savia, Satiti and Lakai as three guys. I think we all agree on those three, yeah?
Yes. Absolutely. For me, Lakai off the bench.
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Chapter 6: What is the discussion around the halfback selections?
I'd like you to refine that.
No, I think you guys did. I think you guys took the Italians up in terms of trying to defend.
You cannot disrespect that team. That team beat England, OK, for the first time ever. And they won a couple of games in the Six Nations, but they're not going to beat the All Blacks in Wellington, mate. They're not.
No, I know that. I've always said that. You guys are the ones that created the idea that potentially Italy could beat us for the first time.
The other thing is, I don't want to fanny round with these three tests. I think it's really important. Dave Rooney's going to have to get an all-black team that he is confident of playing in that first test against South Africa. And so he's going to want to see these guys under load. I'd like to see some of these guys play all three tests, Mark.
Back to back to back. I mean, if you're looking at the South African series, which we need to win, and you've still got one eye on the World Cup, this is the three series where if you're going to bring any young guys through, whether it be someone different at first five, eight, and some of these areas where, you know, maybe we don't have enough depth, you've got to do it in these three.
Count to your argument, you're the guy, the World Cup's in October next year. What are you putting in July this year? Who even knows who's walking next year?
No, but my point going back to Bowdoin Barrett, you start Bowdoin Barrett in this series, mate, you've got Bowdoin Barrett right through the World Cup, and I think he's done. Hey, young boys, you might not know this. You might not know this.
It's a true story, right? Not another one of those ones, sir, please. I'm trying to work out cosine time in my mathematical calculus.
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