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Empire: World History

Should The Koh-I-Noor Be Returned? Mamdani vs King Charles III EXPLAINED

30 Apr 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: What sparked the discussion about the Koh-I-Noor diamond?

0.638 - 18.597 Unknown

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19.133 - 26.487 Anita Arnott

Well, hello and welcome to Empire, a special emergency empire from me, Anita Arnott.

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26.507 - 35.944 William Drimple

And me, William Drimple. We don't often get to do emergency pods, unlike our colleagues in current affairs, but suddenly colonialism is all the rage.

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35.924 - 57.748 Anita Arnott

comes a knocking at our door. It certainly does. And boy, does it. I mean, it's in the headlines. Let me tell you why we've suddenly pressed the plunger and exploded this particular emergency podcast. Headlines like this, Mamdani gives King Charles a royal brushback over a crown jewel swiped from India. There's another headline over here. Mamdani's advice to royals.

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57.849 - 76.227 Anita Arnott

Give the prices diamond back to India. New York Times. We've got another one here. New York City Mayor Zoran Mamdani says he will ask King Charles to return Kona diamond to India. The Independent and The Telegraph and the BBC. Look, it's back. The bloody diamond is black.

77.028 - 81.514 William Drimple

Suddenly, the empire has turned into a current affairs program.

81.654 - 110.683 Anita Arnott

This is an opportunity for us to give you a little bit of the background of this diamond and why I think it's fair to say, Willie, that the king and queen would really rather this hadn't come up again because they have done their best to pour sand water and foam over the inferno this this diamond and we have been led to believe that they may have or someone close to them may have read this book

110.663 - 121.148 Anita Arnott

Sources close to the palace might have suggested that the work that you have done has meant that nobody wanted to wear it during the coronation.

122.15 - 126.36 William Drimple

And sure enough, this is the first time...

Chapter 2: What is the historical significance of the Koh-I-Noor diamond?

428.26 - 455.311 Anita Arnott

Now, the peacock throne is not, as you might imagine it, a large chair replete with gems and diamonds. It's more an ice cream kiosk of an edifice. It is the most blingy thing you've ever seen. It's encrusted in all of the best jewels. It is replete with the very best gems that the moguls have. And Marvy talks about these peacocks at the top of the kiosk, at the top of the throne.

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455.892 - 459.238 Anita Arnott

And one of its heads is the mountain of light.

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459.258 - 461.262 William Drimple

The eye of one of the peacocks.

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461.242 - 471.903 Anita Arnott

But it wasn't, Willie, the diamonds that we put in rings these days, they looked very different then. Can you sort of describe what it would have looked like in that era?

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472.043 - 480.921 William Drimple

First of all, before the discovery of the New World Mines in Brazil, first of all, then ultimately South Africa, where the biggest diamonds today come from,

480.901 - 510.908 William Drimple

um india was the source of all the diamonds in the world it had a monopoly and it was one of india's great exports i mean we think that the pyramids were probably cut using indian diamond tipped tools and um there was this rich tradition of knowledge about gems in india but there were also a large number of very big diamonds floating around in india we know for example that the great hindu kingdom of vijayanagara had an extraordinary collection of enormous diamonds and

510.888 - 530.584 William Drimple

And, you know, these must be diamonds that in all likelihood exist today and have names like the Hope Diamond or the Orlov Diamond you mentioned or the Koh-i-Noor. But it's very difficult in retrospect to work out which of these diamonds is which and which one went in which direction. This diamond

530.564 - 553.818 William Drimple

in the Mogul tradition was not cut like a modern Ratner's ring, you know, with the very sort of symmetrical cut. It was left as our medieval ancestors, like their diamonds, as a cabochon. And the kono has this weird shape. It looks a bit like Arthur's seat with an almost lump on the top of the tail. And in this form, it was used as the eye of the peacock in the Koh-i-Noor.

553.838 - 569.785 William Drimple

And it was taken off by Nadia Shah from the Mughals to Herat, where Nadia Shah kept all his winnings from Delhi, enormous crates full of full of diamonds and all the greatest riches that the Mughals themselves have plundered all over India.

Chapter 3: What are the myths surrounding the curse of the Koh-I-Noor?

798.132 - 801.776 Anita Arnott

And then there's a bit of a confusion because he can't speak.

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801.796 - 816.312 William Drimple

This plays out to this day. Even today on my Twitter, rival parties have been claiming it's theirs. The Sikhs have been saying it's theirs, while people in Orissa have been saying it's theirs. Why would the people in Orissa think they have a right to a Danita?

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816.292 - 840.839 Anita Arnott

Well, Willy, they think that because there was a story that he was surrounded by Hindu pundits. And one of them said, wouldn't you like this to go to a statue of a god in Orissa? That would be very good for your karma. And Ranjit Singh, who couldn't speak at that time, signaled, yes, that is what I want. Whereas others in his court said, what are you talking about?

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840.859 - 852.511 Anita Arnott

He couldn't speak, let alone indicate that he wanted this gem to go to a temple in Orissa. So that's one level of irritation.

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852.551 - 857.716 William Drimple

So this is the treasurer who's called Beliram.

857.956 - 865.283 Anita Arnott

So Mr. Beliram is the man, he's a lowly guy, but all he has to do is look after the treasury.

865.263 - 885.482 William Drimple

And he hides it after Anderson dies to stop it going to Orissa. See, I'm not a Sikh or a Punjabi, so I think I'm more neutral about this than you. And I'd say that the actual claim of Orissa is actually quite a good one and that he did give it to Jagannath Temple.

885.462 - 900.877 Anita Arnott

Just a minute. I mean, I am a Punjabi, but also I understand about catastrophic strokes. So if you have a catastrophic stroke, Mr. I am with the Orisons, how on earth are you going to signal that this is what you want to happen?

901.678 - 903.9 William Drimple

Because it's written in your will before you had a stroke.

Chapter 4: How did the Koh-I-Noor diamond change hands throughout history?

1170.616 - 1186.015 Anita Arnott

The diamond is then rushed out of the country to Queen Victoria by this man Dalhousie who thinks, what a coup it will be for me to lay the great mythical mountain of light at the feet of the Empress of India.

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1186.035 - 1195.366 William Drimple

It is no easy thing to get it out of the country. Then there's a whole new story. We have to read the book or listen to the full four-part podcast that we did at the beginning.

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1195.386 - 1211.332 Anita Arnott

I mean, it basically almost sinks the ship. and causes cholera and despair on the voyage over. Wipes out the crew. And then as soon as it gets in, people are beaten up. Not just the people, the Queen is beaten up. Well, she's not the only one. Peel gets crushed. The former Prime Minister gets crushed under his horse.

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1211.813 - 1231.183 Anita Arnott

And the Queen, Queen Victoria, is handed the diamond with a massive shiner of a black eye because she's been attacked just the day before. As soon as it enters British territorial waters. Exactly right. But look, this is the last bit of the story because we are galloping, galloping through this to tell you why this is so contentious and why Mamdani says give it back.

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1231.543 - 1250.647 Anita Arnott

And then we'll come to who to give it back to. So Queen Victoria is worried about the diamond. She's worried about the curse. She's also worried about the legality of how this diamond has come to her. Albert's got a brilliant idea. He's going to recut it. So it's going to be the same diamond, look different, born anew in British sunlight.

1250.847 - 1275.852 Anita Arnott

It's going to shine like the diamonds that we have in Europe. But it is catastrophic. After its dismal appearance at the Great Exhibition, even though Albert is told again and again, do not try and do this to the diamond. Don't recut this diamond. It has a flaw at its heart. It will go up in smoke. Don't do it. He insists on doing it. And two thirds of the mass of this diamond disappears.

1275.832 - 1297.249 Anita Arnott

Now, not disappears as in you've got two sizable diamonds, just disintegrates. We don't know what's happened to the rest of the diamond. But then what you're left with is what Queen Victoria wore in her crown. And Queen Victoria, she had two very clever things designed for it. And I was so delighted to find the designs for these things.

1297.79 - 1321.376 Anita Arnott

A clasp that you could use it as a brooch and another that will then sort of grip it in a crown, in a coronet. And what happens is she does wear it. But she is the last monarch to wear it because of this idea of the curse. And so after her, no male monarch ever wore the diamond. It only goes to the queen consorts to wear.

1321.676 - 1333.934 Anita Arnott

The last time I think it was seen in public was in the crown of the queen mother during her funeral when it was placed on top of the coffin and people filed past. It is in the Tower of London. You can see it if you want to see it there.

Chapter 5: What role did Ranjit Singh play in the Koh-I-Noor's history?

1446.047 - 1458.888 William Drimple

Afghans, the Taliban and Iran. And that's just for starters. So it's going to be no easy thing. It's rather like Solomon's baby or something, you know, the lady's baby and Solomon saying he's going to divide the child.

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1459.048 - 1483.749 Anita Arnott

You can't cut this thing again. I mean, it's gone through enough. It's suffered enough. But the thing is that's interesting is that it opens up once again And this is why it's such an important thing. And when Dhani's riding, you know, this huge tidal wave of ink and newspaper copy, is it opens up the whole aspect of, you know, who does colonial loot belong to? Was it taken fairly?

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1484.129 - 1493.725 Anita Arnott

Because there's a whole lot of nonsense that came up about the diamond was given as a grateful gift by the Indians. No, no, there was. It was given by Ranjit Singh. He was long dead.

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1493.705 - 1518.548 Anita Arnott

that's not possible honestly did it by ouija board that was something that actually was an official documentation can't can't be even the indians were confused about how it ended up in britain for a while and you had the attorney general at one time talking a load of nonsense when he never did yeah he never did so so look it opens up that conversation willie again and is it going to i mean is it ever going to go anywhere do you think i mean what's your feeling about this

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1518.528 - 1532.935 William Drimple

It's interesting in two ways. This small diamond now, it used to be the size of a hen's egg. It's now, you know, not even that. It's the size of a, I don't know, what is it the size of these days? A sort of a quail's egg. A quail's egg.

1533.336 - 1534.498 Anita Arnott

Oh, you're such a man of the people.

1534.538 - 1536.722 William Drimple

A large quail's egg.

1536.702 - 1543.969 Anita Arnott

Well done, you. I was thinking one of those Christmas chocolate coins, but no, a quail's egg. Sure, why not?

1544.55 - 1565.435 William Drimple

Let's do it. It's not that big, but this little diamond has within it the power of bringing up all the pain of colonialism. And people in India and South Asia associate this one object with everything that was taken from them. And so it's a hugely emotional question.

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