Chapter 1: What was the significance of Manchester United's win over Arsenal?
Hello and welcome to the Football Reporters. This week we will be looking back at Arsenal against Manchester United. A famous win for interim boss Michael Carrick. What that does to the title race. And we'll be looking ahead to the final round of Matchday 8 of the Champions League group stage with all the possible permutations.
Gentlemen, nice to see you both in person, in live, not with the staccato kind of Zoom version. How are we both? You well, Rob?
Lovely. Great to be back.
I've got to put you up on that. He's not the interim head coach. He's the head coach. He's the boss, Michael Carrick. It's his job to lose.
Chapter 2: How is Michael Carrick performing as interim head coach?
Well, let's get into the game first, shall we? To be fair, Rob, I might give you the first dibs at this, but only because I put you on the spot in the last pod about whether Carrick would be good enough. very loaded questions suggesting that we shouldn't get into this trap of Solskjaer 2.0 and all that. How surprised were you by how well they played at Arsenal?
Yeah, I mean, really surprised. And that was even on the back of what they did against Man City. Because I think there was still a kind of question about the Derby, whether we united really, really good, which I think they were, or was it that City were really bad, which I think they were.
So going to Arsenal, I think people, fans thought that maybe the established order would be kind of back again and Arsenal would win relatively comfortably, particularly when they go ahead. I just think that Michael Carrick deserves an immense amount of credit for what he did because I don't think he's made that many massive changes.
Obviously, the formation is different than the one we saw under Ramrim. But I don't think there's been this kind of huge change that he's made that people have gone, oh my God, I can't believe he's done that. He's playing players in the right positions. He seems to have instilled a level of confidence in him. I thought the biggest thing
You know, aside from the performance at Arsenal and the result, that time and time again under Amrim, we saw that when things started to go badly, they went really badly. You know, they would concede two goals in five minutes or three goals in 10 minutes. Something that predated Amrim, actually. They happened to turn hard quite a lot.
So when they go a goal down at Arsenal, you start thinking this could be 3-0 in 20 minutes. And rather than that, you know, rather than kind of just settling themselves, they actually come back to win the game from that point and then suffer another setback right at the end. and then go on to win it.
I think mentality-wise, that says an awful lot about what Michael Carrick has been able to do in, what is it, 10 days and that. Aside from all the tactical stuff, and I'm sure we'll get onto all that stuff, but aside from that, that is the biggest thing that he's done and he deserves a lot of credit for that.
Was that the most impressive thing for you? At 2-2, you suddenly think, OK, Arsenal are going to sort of rouse themselves out of this slumber and get themselves over the line. And yet, three minutes later, or less than that, I think, Kunio scores the winner. I mean, was that response to that moment, was that something that just wouldn't have happened under Ruben Amaru?
I think so, and I think also the fact that Patrick Dogger was injured prior to that and he made an attacking substitution. He replaced Dogger with Cunha rather than put a defender on to see it out. So I think that again was a change from Amrim who, as we know, was very kind of cautious, over-cautious.
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Chapter 3: What does Mikel Arteta's cautious approach mean for Arsenal's title chances?
Ameren didn't trust his players, did he? I mean, I think that's fairly obvious. He didn't trust them. I think at times he almost didn't like them. There were some players that he didn't like in terms of he was exasperated by what he felt was their lack of quality.
And I think that was kind of, you can see that in the players' performances, that they knew the manager didn't trust them or have faith in them. Whereas Carrick, he clearly trusts the players. And the players are responding, aren't they? They've got a sense of freedom. I think Patrick Dargu was the obvious example. Dargu was really poor under Ameren. Terrible.
And Amri made a couple of comments that suggested that he wasn't a fan at all. So I think we'd all written Darga off as an expensive one. Not that expensive, but still, £28 million flop from Lecce. But Carrick has just given him confidence, given him some recent life into him. And he's scored an amazing goal at the Emirates. He's scored a winning goal against City in the Derby.
So, you know, Patrick Dargou has kind of embodied what Michael Carrick's done. He's given the players confidence, a bit of freedom, and that was there in the performance yesterday.
There was one thing that I thought was really, really interesting that... when the goal goes in to make it 2-2 usually we would have seen if that would have been Amrim the entire team would have sat back and taken what they had and I've got a lot of sympathy for Ruben Amrim I've said on this podcast a lot of times but
I think the suggestion was within United was that he came to fade the Premier League, not just the big teams, but also the smaller teams. Fade what other teams could do to you, not what you could do to them. And it was really interesting after it went to 2-2. Arsenal got the ball back. I think there was a goal kick. David Raya had a goal kick.
Bruno Fernandes goes straight up onto the edge of the box to press really, really high. Now, at the time, I thought, watching it, thinking, they might get done here. This ball's going to go over the top. Bruno's going to be miles out of position and they're going to concede again. And in fairness, they win the ball back really quickly, really high up. It goes to Cunha and they score to win 3-2.
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Chapter 4: How do injuries impact Manchester United's squad depth?
That just would never have happened under Ruben Amrim. And I think that kind of... that belief and that confidence instills itself in the players. And if the players feel that from a manager, because you've got a choice, haven't you, at 2-2. The manager gets on the touchline and he either goes, don't do anything stupid. Let's just get out of here with 2-2.
Or he goes, no, no, no, Bruno, you go and push quite high. There's still a chance for us here. To see a manager on a touchline do that is a massive switch. And I think from a player's point of view, you go, all right, okay. We're not panicked. We're not scared. We're not fearing this. We're actually going to try and be on the front foot again. And that's where the goal comes from.
And I just think that's, again, it's not necessarily a tactical thing. It's a belief and a mentality thing.
I think that when I mentioned trust before, I think it's also the player's trust to carry his coaches now. And I don't think he trusted Amarim, his coaches. I think we've said this for a while now that,
post Alex Ferguson United haven't had a proper backroom staff a kind of a senior first team coach and Steve Holland has come in I think already you can see the difference that he's made he's made United much more organised I think you know Harry Maguire as you know has played with Holland with England and he knows what he can do as an organiser and I think even Diogo Dalot you know I think I've been critical of Dalot a lot on this podcast but at the Emirates it looked like Dalot with the penny had dropped that
pick your moment don't look forward all the time when you defend do it you know in a line and be organised in a week 10 days you can see that Steve Holland has had an impact it's a good appointment isn't it Steve a brilliant appointment it's a bit of a coup that isn't it I mean you all know better than anyone about what you can do but from the outside looking in
he's not a popular i mean i've got to say you know this he's not the most popular coach with players he can be hard and people have told me that it can be quite hard it can be cold it can be arrogant at times he's got a bit of bite about money yeah but he's got the track record that backs up he's worked at chelsea yeah he's worked at in england i mean with chelsea works you know under marino under ancelotti he's worked with the best he's worked with england got an under period of great success you know you can say what you want but they still had a successful period of england
So he's got credentials that I don't think any coach since René Moulinstein or Carlos Queiroz have had at United. And he comes with those credentials and he can see that the players are looking around thinking, we've got a bench that knows what he's doing.
There's a skill, I think, to being a good number two. I think it's maybe overlooked sometimes that you can actually be a really, really good number two. It doesn't mean that you could go on and be a number one. You know, you really know how to operate in that number two role. And it's interesting that the dynamic with him and Southgate appears to be quite similar to the one with Carrick.
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Chapter 5: What are the implications of Arsenal's risk-averse tactics?
I know that Steve used to ring a lot of the players on behalf of Gareth around the squad announcements and maybe explain some of the reasoning behind some of the players who weren't in or some of the players who were. I think he's a very forthright and clear communicator. And when you've got that pedigree, as you say, to sort of back that up, I think that's brought... I think you saw it, really.
That was a bit like a United of old... kind of mature, almost a European away type performance. I know, you know, you'd sort of associate that with like a 1-0 win or whatever, but I mean, just the maturity they showed compared with Arsenal, who really didn't manage that game very well at any point, you sort of thought that there's a brain's trust behind that.
And that's, you know, credit to the coaching staff and the work that they've done in the week. To that point though, Rob,
You know, Ruben Amrim's reputation took a bit of a battering during 14 months at United. It took an even bigger battering the two games since he's left because it's like, what were you doing? What was Ruben Amrim doing that made this team so inhibited and so poor? I mean, obviously, it's only two games, we know that, but it's two games against Man City and Arsenal.
So Ruben Amrim must look at himself thinking, I was so stubborn, I was so inflexible, my coaches have worked good enough. Oh, does he?
No, I mean, I've got a lot of sympathy for Ameren because I do think it's unfair to hire a 3-4-3 coach and then not give him the players necessary to play that system. I mean, it was no surprise that he came in and wanted to play like that.
But abandon the system and go back to be pragmatic.
I mean, what I would say is as great as Carrick has done, there is a long way to go and not to take anything away from beating City and Arsenal because I don't want to do that at all. But...
Amrim even Amrim occasionally had good results against big sides the issue that Amrim had and again it predates Amrim it goes back to Ten Hag and even Solskjaer was when teams come and defending a low block they just couldn't find a way to break them down now United's next games are Fulham at home Tottenham at home West Ham away Everton away Palace at home
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Chapter 6: How do Arsenal's performances against top teams affect their title race?
And now the most recent one is you started talking about how difficult, to your point, about number nines in general and whether that role is actually changing a little bit. And we're not expecting a number nine to go and score 25, 30 goals a season, what they've actually got to do off the ball and then their link-up play and what we ask of that nine.
and what they can do to bring others into play is actually starting to redefine how we should judge those strikers. It's starting to get a little bit sort of word salad almost of trying to explain why their big number nine signing is not working out.
Because they're not good enough. Just before then we get into Arsenal properly, because I know you've got a few things you want to say. James, we're going to let you have the floor. You made it sound like a public statement. Just before we go on to Arsenal... Michael Carrick is obviously the man in control of that job at the moment. He's had two massive results. Is his job to lose, do you think?
Is there a chance that we might see Michael Carrick be the proper permanent manager in the summer?
Yeah, I think there's obviously a chance. I mean, it'd be foolish of United not to consider him because if he starts with wins against the two best teams in the country, you know, Pep Guardiola said on Friday that Arsenal are the best team in the world and they've gone there and won, so... You have to consider him.
I think what United have to avoid as well is that just because it didn't work out with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer in the end. He did get into a runner's up spot in the Premier League one year. It didn't work out with Ole but you can't say well it didn't work out for him so it won't work out for Michael Carrick. They're completely different characters.
you know, Oli didn't really have the coaching staff that Michael Carrick's brought in. I remember at the time, I think it was Oli's last season, the club had basically gone to Oli and said, look, we will bring you any coach you want to boost your team. And he said, no, no, I've got the best coaching staff in the world, you know, in Michael Carrick and Kieran McKenna.
Good coaches they are, but they weren't experienced. But Michael Carrick's addressed that, so that shows he's a different character. So I think from United's perspective, First of all, it'd be less expensive than the coaches that talk about it in terms of Pochettino, Tuchel, Ancelotti. He's also popular. Happy to slot into a system. Yeah. Tuchel, maybe not. But it all boils down to success.
Now, at the minute, success is great. Toons out of Toons. The style of football is Man United's style of football. You know, attacking substitutions, as Garen Evel said, risking defeat to win. And I think he's done that, certainly in the Arsenal game. So, from United's perspective...
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Chapter 7: What challenges lie ahead for Arsenal in the Premier League?
So to me, that would get him in the running. But I think United internally are thinking that the bar is really high because the last thing that they want is to be seen to be riding on a wave of emotion with Carrick, the away fans at the Emirates singing.
Carrick's song and we're going to win the league and all this kind of stuff and Carrick at the wheel all that and then December next season comes and United have lost five of the first eight games and everyone goes oh I told you it wasn't going to work you should have got Tuchel in the summer and then that ship has sailed I think the bar is high I wouldn't give it to Michael Carrick
Even if they get in the Champions League?
No, even if they get in the Champions League. I just think that... And I like Michael Carrick. He seems like a nice guy. I don't know him personally, but I've covered him a bit when he was playing for England, but... I just think they've got to be aiming higher.
Michael Carrick, as good as... I know this feels counterintuitive, speaking shortly after they've just beaten Arsenal and City, but he's not going to bring the good times back long term. He might give you that feel-good factor for a while. But I think this summer is going to be such a pivotal summer for so many clubs because there's going to be so many managers, top managers available.
And if United were to just miss out on that carousel again, I think they'd be looking at it come Christmas time thinking, yeah, we weren't brave enough here. And they only need to look at their own recent history and to find the warnings of being duped like this.
Well, they've tried everything. They've tried the big manager with Mourinho, Van Gaal. They've tried the old play with Ole. They've tried the next big thing without Ten High.
They haven't tried everything. They haven't tried everything.
Well, what have they not tried?
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Chapter 8: Who are the favorites for the Champions League this season?
And the first point he goes to is, well, they didn't create anything and we had chances ourselves. And I think this speaks to the only thing that really could stop Arsenal winning the league, which is that if they continue to be this risk averse... then they're going to play every single game with this tension and within these fine margins.
And you don't win every game like that in this league because it's too competitive.
We were talking, I think it was in the middle of the time, and I actually made a point of saying, Arsenal are so well-drilled. It was really impressive to watch how well-drilled they were in terms of whenever United broke, Declan Rice was there mopping up, and then whenever United were in the opposition half, Arsenal were so rigid with their banks of four and just defending.
It was almost like an art form to watch it. Now, it's clear that... They must work on shape every day, which is quite boring if you're a player just walking through positional sense. And we just thought, well, it was quite robotic. So he's drilled his players to the point where can they think for themselves?
Now, when Dargu scored that second goal, we made a point because all of a sudden they had this kind of impromptu gathering, the Arsenal players. Now, I think a little bit was because they weren't sure if it was a handball by Dargu, but a lot of it was almost like they were all looking around at each other thinking, what do we do now?
It wasn't a huddle, but it was definitely a sense of, they were looking for somebody to say, right, come on guys, let's get ourselves out of this. But nobody clearly had an idea what to do. And they started glancing over the touchline to our tech, as if to say, what now?
And what was next was a quadruple change.
Yeah, taking off your most creative play.
About, I think it was seven or eight minutes after the goal. And I mean, we've tried to get our stats guys to find out exactly when it was. They weren't able, they don't have that data, but...
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