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Fin vs History

Dev Vader | Mahatma Gandhi (Part 2/4)

30 Apr 2026

Transcription

Chapter 1: What challenges did Gandhi face in South Africa?

0.537 - 10.75

Thank you.

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12.603 - 41.651 Fin Taylor

Welcome back to Finn vs History, together with Horatio Gould. Hello! We're going through the life of Mahatma Gandhi, and this is part two, and it's Gandhi in South Africa. It's terrific stuff. 1893 to 1914. It's all the cricket countries, right? This is Gandhi's tour of the cricket countries. Now, to recap, we started off, we're in the British Raj, and I had a lovely time. Halcyon days.

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41.671 - 55.785 Fin Taylor

That's the end of my recap. Gandhi has got his degree, but he can't get a job in India, which is, I guess, the past in other countries. Yeah, it is, isn't it? He's bad at public speaking, and he's gone to South Africa. He's got no riz.

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55.905 - 57.207 Horatio Gould

Yeah, he doesn't have to get riz.

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57.307 - 57.547 Fin Taylor

Yeah.

58.047 - 64.954 Horatio Gould

Arranged marriages mean you don't have to get riz. You're not put into the fucking pressure cooker. You're not out in the clubs working it out.

64.994 - 67.437 Fin Taylor

No, not working the clubs. You're not hammering the circuit.

67.457 - 67.517

No.

68.442 - 73.636 Charlie

What? He hasn't got Riz, but he might have a friend called Riz. Riz, like Riz Ahmed? Like Riz Ahmed.

Chapter 2: How did Gandhi's experiences shape his views on race?

87.155 - 110.064 Fin Taylor

Did you ever use to play that game, was it called Google Whack, where you had to try and get nothing? You've just done that, Charlie. Wow. Those aren't many great matches for you. Google's gone, try using words that might appear. Did Gandhi have a friend called Riz? No. No. He had a friend called Herman and a friend called Charlie and his personal secretary was called Pyrelle. But no one Riz.

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110.324 - 126.227 Fin Taylor

How am I saying that? Pyrelle. Didn't his dad die of Pyrelle? No, I think my wife can't Pyrelle Park. But anyway, no one called Riz. Right. But great effort, Charlie. Yeah, it was a good one. Playing a miss, but... I like the attitude.

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126.848 - 150.704 Fin Taylor

So, yeah, Gandhi's dad died of some kind of explosive piles and Gandhi wasn't there to hold his hand because he was fucking his 13-year-old wife who was pregnant, but that was fine because he was also 13. He'd gone to London. Was he Jack the Ripper? We can't know. And he's now gone to South Africa, having failed to start a law firm in India. And he arrives in South Africa in April 1893.

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151.225 - 154.549 Fin Taylor

Horatio Gould, would you like to place April 1893 for us?

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154.569 - 160.937 Horatio Gould

1893. So I guess this is after the first Sherlock Holmes novel.

160.917 - 173.397 Fin Taylor

Just double check that, please, Charlie. While he's doing that, I can say that April 1893 is Hitler's fourth birthday. Hitler's a four-year-old toddler at this point. His fourth birthday party takes place in April 1893.

173.538 - 184.115 Horatio Gould

Right, okay. So when was the first one? 1887. That's nice. And I guess this is before Gemma Collins' first book. Has she written a book, Gemma Collins?

184.976 - 186.739 Fin Taylor

Gemma Collins has written a book called

Chapter 3: What was the significance of the Indian Ambulance Corps?

187.377 - 201.22 Horatio Gould

Well, she's written two. Two, first book. Didn't Steinbeck write like four? You're thinking of J.D. Salinger. Salinger, that's right. Salinger wrote one, like two books? At least six. Christ.

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201.601 - 220.877 Fin Taylor

Collins is a third of the way through. Collins is closer to J.D. Salinger than I am. Yeah. Fucking hell. This country. So, April 1893, Gemma Collins' tomes have not yet been published. Arthur Conan Doyle's have been. Hitler's blowing out the candles on his fourth birthday cake. Broad!

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220.857 - 239.946 Fin Taylor

And immediately Gandhi arrives in South Africa and he takes part in legal practice and activism to boost the rights of Indians in South Africa. Let's just get into what South Africa is like in 1893. I think it's fair to say it's quite a racist society.

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240.584 - 243.73 Horatio Gould

Well, I think lead the politics at the door, I'd say.

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243.75 - 248.039 Fin Taylor

Yeah, okay, fine. It's quite a separate society.

248.059 - 250.644 Horatio Gould

It's a colourful society. Some people say that's a problem.

250.784 - 256.275 Fin Taylor

Yes, there are colours in society. I suppose people stick to their own, you might say.

256.295 - 262.024 Horatio Gould

It's a rainbow coalition. as in the colours are stacked on top of each other in a defined order.

262.224 - 275.781 Fin Taylor

Yes, it's more of a Dulux colour chart than a rainbow, isn't it? They're all separate in their own sections. Sure. And yeah, this is pre-apartheid. Right. And South Africa at this point... They didn't need apartheid because it went without saying.

Chapter 4: How did Gandhi's philosophy of Satyagraha develop?

344.019 - 347.745 Fin Taylor

He's fucking... He sees himself... He's had tea with William Hansen.

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347.785 - 352.271 Horatio Gould

He says he sees himself as a Briton before he's an Indian. Yes. At this point. He loves the empire at this point.

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352.291 - 364.026 Fin Taylor

And South Africa will change that. Right. He goes, no, no, no, you're not British. Yeah. So he's on a train, he's forced to sit on the floor away from the white passengers, even though he had a first class ticket. I mean, that's quite embarrassing.

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364.387 - 380.106 Horatio Gould

Yeah. If you go on... For who, sorry? Well, I mean, this is... When we took Charlie on first class when we were doing the live pod tour... Of course, you took my ticket. And you nearly got sparked out. I think you should have probably been treated like Gandhi. Yes. Where you had to sit on the floor faced away from all the other passengers. It would have been simpler.

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380.306 - 385.492 Unknown

When we threw away the race laws... We did throw out a baby with that bar for some.

385.512 - 387.335 Horatio Gould

Which is that some passengers should have to sell them.

387.355 - 397.068 Fin Taylor

Irrespective of race, there should be a place where passengers who shouldn't be in first class, even though they have a ticket, have to sit on the floor. Because you could not behave.

397.148 - 409.304 Horatio Gould

I got called scum. You got called scum by a guy wearing a fucking... But also, you were halfway through a caramel wafer bar. So while you're being bollocked, you're still trying to maintain your... But you're still chewing on a choccy bar.

409.625 - 409.725

Yeah.

Chapter 5: What were the key events during the Zulu Rebellion?

437.693 - 443.205 Horatio Gould

By the way, it's the best first class in the UK by far. He and I should have been fighting in the toilet rather than...

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443.185 - 456.558 Fin Taylor

Yes, yes, you should have been. So anyway, so Gandhi is kicked into a gutter because he walked near a white person's house. Right. Now there was a thing about Indians not being allowed to walk on pavements.

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457.28 - 459.405 Horatio Gould

Indians or untouchables or...

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459.385 - 484.408 Fin Taylor

No, in South Africa, we'll get into this, but South Africa is a stratified society, obviously. Whites, black Africans, and then other, what they would say, coloured people. So that's everyone who didn't fit into either of those categories. Now, he had this formative experience. There's not a lot of positive discrimination. No, I think it's just discrimination.

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484.428 - 492.531 Fin Taylor

It's not Kevin Peterson complaining that he can't get in the cricket team because... Is Kevin Peterson complaining why there's so many black people walking near my house?

493.534 - 495.72 Horatio Gould

No, Kevin Peterson... I guess he does say that probably as well.

495.7 - 519.417 Fin Taylor

Well, Kevin Peterson's origin story is that he kicked off at the quota system that was done to, you know, try and right some of these wrongs. And then he goes to England where... It was like you before you got in love with the Apollo. Excuse me? Yeah, and then he goes back... And plays at the Wanderers in Johannesburg and absolutely knocks it.

519.437 - 538.144 Fin Taylor

Apparently he gets booed, but he knocks it all over the park. And then they're going, ah, shit, okay. Well, maybe... Maybe that was a mistake. Maybe quota systems are bad. Yeah. Anyway, he has this formative moment where he's on a train in first class with his first class ticket. And then he gets kicked off because I think there's another passenger.

538.184 - 539.967 Fin Taylor

I mean, classic, another white passenger's like...

Chapter 6: How did Gandhi's activism impact Indian rights in South Africa?

563.211 - 564.253 Horatio Gould

Go on. That's what you were saying.

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564.453 - 585.944 Fin Taylor

We are talking about the horny holy money. And what else could he have done in that waiting room? My God. And this is where he's convinced that basically he was deluded. He had always seen himself as a Briton first and then an Indian and that the British Empire... meant that he would be treated as such in every part of it.

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586.044 - 597.531 Horatio Gould

Is it sort of like that scene in a sort of psychological thriller where near the end someone realises that his friend has been the bad guy all along? And it's like they re-go over all those things.

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597.551 - 633.42 Fin Taylor

It's Hank on the toilet in Breaking Bad. But... Walter White. But then it's the most, they might be racist. Oh, I think he only realises he's Indian. When he's on the toilet. He's like, I'm Indian. What? So he then starts... Now, in Natal, which is the... That's where... That's where Rourke's Drift happens. There is legislation coming up. That's Natal that happens there.

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633.67 - 650.838 Fin Taylor

Natal, that happens there. Lovely stuff. How are they going to get the Jamaican accent into this episode? Natal, that happens there. So the Natal is trying to introduce legislation to remove voting rights from Indians. And so he petitions unsuccessfully against the legislation.

650.858 - 655.145 Horatio Gould

10,000 people signed a petition, but back then, 10,600 petitions, it's a lot harder to get than now.

655.846 - 656.046 Fin Taylor

Yes.

656.146 - 659.712 Horatio Gould

Because now it's just an online thing. Yeah. But this, you have to go...

659.692 - 664.879 Fin Taylor

Sometimes I even go to sign, I go, oh, this is a good petition. I go sign it. And they ask you one thing. And I go, fuck off now.

Chapter 7: What role did the Asiatic Registration Act play in Gandhi's activism?

666.801 - 673.65 Fin Taylor

Jeremy Clarkson. Write your name. Fuck off. No. Give us your email address. Fuck off. Are you a robot? Fuck off. Don't.

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673.67 - 675.452 Horatio Gould

Name six motorcycles. Fuck off.

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675.472 - 694.17 Fin Taylor

You've ruined it. You've lost me. I'm not signing your petition. I don't care what it's for. It has to just be easy. It has to be just bang. If it's any speed bumps at all, fuck off. No. Done. No petitions. So he forms the not all Indian Congress, which is not...

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694.893 - 699.7 Horatio Gould

He's very against Nuttall. He is. He does not like people.

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699.76 - 717.444 Fin Taylor

Not like the Nuttall men conference that I run. The Nuttall Indian Congress in 1894. And he starts to think about this non-violent stuff. This is what we'll see in this episode. It becomes radicalized. Radically non-violent.

718.285 - 720.428 Horatio Gould

This is where his terrorism begins.

721.1 - 741.431 Fin Taylor

Yeah, his boring terrorism begins in South Africa. In the Boer War. In the Boer War. Lovely stuff. Well, let's get into that. So in 1899, let's just dig into the Boer War because we will do a series on it. But again, Boer Corps, you know, plate helmets, Boer Corps. Why isn't that on my TikTok?

Chapter 8: How did Gandhi's views evolve regarding race and equality?

741.532 - 743.074 Fin Taylor

Raj Corps, Boer Corps.

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743.054 - 752.57 Horatio Gould

So you know how your algorithm is listening to you. I can imagine you just at home going, Borecore. Me as a man in British Raj, 1899. Please, now.

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752.77 - 759.3 Fin Taylor

Please. If you're listening, the Chinese person who's listening, I want to see myself as the... Is this working?

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759.361 - 760.963 Horatio Gould

Hello? Hello?

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761.063 - 770.626 Fin Taylor

Xi Jinping, hello? Dad trying to speak to AI. He gets caught by his wife. Me as a British soldier in Rockstrip.

770.666 - 771.588 Horatio Gould

Hello?

771.608 - 774.295 Fin Taylor

I'm sorry. No, hi. No, no, come in.

774.315 - 776.2 Horatio Gould

The torch is on.

777.192 - 787.303 Fin Taylor

Glasses at the end of the nose. Me as a imperial soldier. Me wearing a red tunic in hot country with coolies and punk water.

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