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Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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Chapter 2: What do Mark and Jonathan remember about the size of the goals in Mexico '86?
Elisa Aito 5G.
At the People World Cup 2026, the Football Daily Podcast with Mark Chapman.
Hello, welcome to a special Football Daily podcast where we'll go back 40 years to reminisce on the 1986 Mexico World Cup. Joining us, Jonathan Wilson, author of The Power and the Glory, a new history of the World Cup, recently crowned Sports Book of the Year. It is a sensational book, Jonathan.
I know you're not here to plug your book, but honestly, honestly, the whole history of the World Cup, it's brilliant. Oh, thank you very much.
Chapter 3: How did Scotland cope with the tragedy of Jock Stein's passing during the World Cup?
I'm always happy to plug any of my plugs. There'll be more plugs coming and you're not going to get away with just that one. It's an amazing reference point for all of the tournaments throughout the years. Is 86 your favourite? It might be, yes. I think everybody has a natural soft spot for their first World Cup. And my first World Cup was 82. I turned six during the 82 World Cup.
So in that sense, 86 was the first one where I really had some kind of sense of what was going on. But I think it was a brilliant World Cup. It looked so different. I think that's something that we maybe lost. I think World Cup's look quite homogenous now, but you could tell it was foreign. It looked really hot.
Chapter 4: What was Jono Vernon-Powell's experience as an England fan in Mexico?
There was that sort of washed out quality to it. The goals were, I mean, box nets now we're used to, but the goals were enormous. The goals were absolutely, it's very difficult to explain how unusual that was to us all. watching at the time.
And the interesting thing with this programme, Jonathan, as well, is I have to say, my producer pointed this out, 17 years ago, I did a whole load of shows for Five Live about every single World Cup. And my producer pointed out that back then in 2009, a lot of people listening would have remembered the 86th World Cup.
And this time, 17 years on, some people listening would have no recollection of that World Cup. They might not have even been born.
Chapter 5: What insights does Barry Davies share about Maradona's iconic goals?
But the goals, honestly, that is the thing that sticks in my mind more than anything. As a kid, I was 13 at the time. The nets were huge. Huge. I had an obsession with goal nets. And to the point where I think if you'd shown me sort of just a shot of a goal net on any top flight ground, I could have told you which stadium it was.
But I had a theory that if a net went further back, as if it was these big box nets, it was easy to score from an error angle. And I think this was partly conditioned by Dundee United's game at Barcelona. Barcelona also, the Nou Camp, had those huge nets.
Chapter 6: How do Argentinian fans view Maradona and the 1986 World Cup win?
The Stadium of Light at Benfica's ground had those huge goal nets. And then suddenly Mexico, they've all got those goal nets.
Chapter 7: What challenges did England face during the 1986 World Cup?
So I know there's a sort of theory that because the air in Mexico is thinner, because of the altitude, that's why there are so many long-range goals. But I think maybe just the goal nets. And that, I think, is actually my overriding memory, is these long-range shots flying in. And then at school, suddenly people are attempting long-range shots nobody would have attempted before.
And as you did it, there were two names you might have screamed. You might have screamed Josimar from Badafogo, but also Vasily Rats. And these then became names completely stripped of context. They were just sounds that the kids made that signified a long-range shot has been attempted. Yeah, it was Josimar up here, or with my mates, it was always Josimar from that World Cup.
Chapter 8: What were the standout moments of the Argentina vs. England match?
But to younger listeners who don't understand, I mean, you would have those massive nets there, and then you would have your team going to play Southampton at the Dell, and the Dell nets were about three inches deep, weren't they? Yeah. Yeah, they were. And Jossimo, I think, is a great example as well of the exoticism of the World Cup then.
I think he only played, I think, 15 or 16 times for Brazil. He wasn't a big player. Yeah, for people of our generation, he's a huge figure. And he only came in that team because I think it was Branco who was injured. Now, if that was today... We'd have had weeks of Bill. Who in Brazil are going to pick it right back? Oh, it might be this kid from Botafogo, Josimar.
He's got a long-range shot on him. So it wouldn't come as a shock when this thunderbolt flies in the top corner. But he just explodes in our consciousness. And you now have, you know, there's a Norwegian football magazine called Josimar named after him. And I've got no idea what he did after that. I've got no idea if he went into management. I've no idea if he's still alive.
Actually, I should go and interview Josimar, shouldn't I? That's a good thing I should have done. Yeah, that would have been great. There's still plenty of time for you to do that. Over the course of the next 50 minutes or so, Barry Davis will join us. Marcelo Moreira will join us as later Argentina journalist. An England fan will come on with us with his stories from Mexico.
Scotland striker Graham Sharp as well. Scotland were in a horrible, horrible group. It may have been that tournament. Was that the first tournament we came up with group of death? Yeah, it was the Uruguay manager, Omar Barros. El Grupo de la Muerte. Because they were with Denmark, Uruguay and West Germany. It was a really horrible, tough group. My first World Cup was Spain 82.
So that was obviously played when I could watch everything once I got home from school. Whereas this, for me, was that first exotic... I know 78 had been in Argentina, but I don't remember that. This was the first exotic World Cup where... Actually, for England in their group games, I would actually have to wake up the following morning to find out what had happened.
Yeah, I mean, I remember turning on breakfast TV the morning after the Poland game. So, I mean, England had started badly. They'd lost to Portugal and they grew against Morocco. Brian Robson got injured. Ray Wilkins was sent off in the space of 90 seconds towards the end of the first half. So they have to beat Poland to go through. And I went to bed long before that kicked off.
And I remember on Breakfast TV, and the phrase they gave it away was, there is a smile on the face of English football this morning. And then seeing Lineker's hat trick. And two of those goals, the breakaway, the counter-attacking football, is absolutely stunning. Just the sort of build-up to this tournament, it actually, they weren't meant to host this tournament, were Mexico, were they?
And then when the tournament which had originally been given to Colombia was taken off Colombia because of financial difficulties, ironically, given the World Cup that we're about to experience, Canada and the USA, along with Brazil, were in the running to host this one in 86'. Yeah, that's right. So it had been given to Colombia actually as long ago as 1973. So they had 13 years to prepare.
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