Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Rare earths have become a powerful political tool for China. But before that, one U.S. company monopolized the industry. We have the dramatic story of how America dominated the market for rare earths and then lost it all. I think about that almost every day of my life, Kenny. What could I have done differently? Listen to Planet Money on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. Our guest today is three-time Tony Award winner Nathan Lane. He was just nominated for a Tony for his starring role as Willie Loman in the new Broadway revival of Arthur Miller's Death of a Salesman. The role is a departure from the comedic, larger-than-life performances Lane is best known for, like in The Birdcage, Guys and Dolls, and The Producers.
Lane spoke with guest interviewer Sam Fregoso, host of the interview podcast Talk Easy. Here's Sam.
Since his Broadway debut at the tender age of 26 in Noel Coward's Present Laughter, Tony winner Nathan Lane has long been regarded as one of the great entertainers of the stage, in the tradition of Ethel Merman, Zero Mostel, and Bill Silvers. But in the last decade, Lane couldn't help but think of Peggy Lee singing Is That All There Is?, which inspired Lane to pivot to more dramatic roles.
Hickey in The Iceman Cometh, Roy Cohn in Angels in America, and and now Willie Loman in Death of a Salesman. In the hit new Broadway revival, Lane transforms as the prideful patriarch and traveling salesman, oscillating back and forth between bravado and desperation, an emblem of the dissolution of the American family and their dreams.
Arthur Miller's 1949 Pulitzer Prize-winning play has had several acclaimed productions, led by great actors like Lee J. Cobb, Dustin Hoffman, Wendell Pierce, and the late Brian Dennehy, who was a mentor to Lane. The Guardian has praised his portrayal as, quote, the crown jewel in a life spent on stage, end quote. The Tonys seem to agree when the nominations were announced earlier this week.
Nathan Lane, welcome back to Fresh Air.
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
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Chapter 2: What role did Nathan Lane just receive a Tony nomination for?
You were nominated this week for a Tony for your performance as Willie Loman in Death of a Salesman. This marks, I think, your seventh nomination. Is that right?
That is correct.
I've heard there are pre-show rituals that performers have before they go on stage. Are there rituals or traditions you have the morning of Tony nominations?
I sleep. I try to get as much sleep as possible because this is a big mountain to climb. So I don't have any rituals in the hopes of Tony nominations. I just hope for the best.
Why don't we hear a little bit of what that performance that you're nominated for sounds like? The play alternates between the past and present. And so in this flashback, Willie has just come home from a sales trip up along the East Coast where he's met by his two young boys.
Where'd you go this time, Dad? Well, I got on the road, and I went north to Providence, met the mayor. The mayor of Providence? He was sitting in the hotel lobby. What'd he say? He said, morning, and I said, you've got a fine city here, Mayor. And then he had coffee with me. And then I went to Waterbury. Waterbury's a fine city. Big clock city. The famous Waterbury clock.
Sold a nice bill there, and then Boston. Boston is... The cradle of the revolution. A fine city and a couple of other towns in Massachusetts. And on to Portland and Bangor and straight home. Gee, I'd love to go with you sometime, Dad. Soon as summer comes. Promise. Oh, you and Hap and I. And I'll show you all the towns. America. It's full of beautiful towns and fine, upstanding people.
And they know me, boys. They know me. Up and down New England, the finest people. And when I bring you fellas up, there'll be open sesame for all of us. Because one thing, boys. I have friends. I can park my car in any street in New England, and the cops protect it like their own. This summer, huh? You bet.
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Chapter 3: How has Nathan Lane's career evolved over the years?
We'll take our bathing suits. You'll carry your bags, Pop. Oh, won't that be something, me coming into the Boston stores with you boys carrying my bags.
It's funny hearing that scene. Willie is out on the road selling. But when he comes back home, you can hear even there he's selling a story or a dream even to his sons. There seems to be like another – And to his wife. And to his wife. You've said before that when it comes to Death of a Salesman, its meaning to you changes depending on where you're at in your life when you're in it. Oh, yeah.
So tell me, where has it landed with you in this stretch where you're performing, what is it, six nights a week? Don't know how you're doing it. Where does the play land with you in this moment?
I don't know how I'm doing it either. But Laurie Metcalf and I are old school. The show must go on.
Chapter 4: What is unique about Lane's portrayal of Willy Loman?
We do it. I believe that's called masochism. Yes. Is it? I don't know. I like to think of it as professionalism. Look, there's a reason it's a classic, that it's called The Great American Play. And when people come back and talk about it, if they're not weeping, they're saying things like, you were my father.
And I think so often with this production, so many people say, I feel like I've never seen it before. It felt so modern. And also the notion of Willie often is the case in the play. He's fighting for his life. I mean I think that's what makes him an interesting character. He's very flawed. He's a mass of contradictions and incredibly insecure. And he has this very misguided personality.
view of the American dream, which is, you know, that it's about his self-worth and his idea of success is all based on the opinion of others, which as an actor, you're You certainly can relate to. His whole philosophy is it's about being well-liked. It's not what you say. It's how you say it because personality always wins the day. And if you are well-liked, you will never want.
It's a very flawed view of how to succeed. But he totally believes in it and in this – his version of the American dream. And – I guess for a while in the old days, you know, it worked to a certain degree. But now all of the people he used to go out and see who were friends on the road, they're either retired or dead. And being a traveling salesman is sort of fading away as well.
So he's in a desperate way. But in that scene, you're getting a glimpse into his psyche. And they're trying to pretend that it's all okay when it's not.
The last time you played a salesman was over a decade ago in the Iceman Cometh. And you've said that production of Iceman Cometh, quote, changed the way I approach everything. What was that change?
Well, I had been doing a musical on Broadway called The Addams Family, which had been reviled by the critics. And yet the public spoke. They wanted to see it. So while I was in that run, Charles Isherwood, who was at The New York Times then, wrote a very lovely and flattering piece about an assessment of my career.
And he referred to me as the greatest stage entertainer of the last decade, which was extremely complimentary. But I could always find the dark cloud in any silver lining. I was flattered but troubled by the word entertainer. But I appreciate it. But he found me entertaining.
But – Is this kind of like a Joe Pesci in Goodfellas? Like why do you – what's funny about me situation?
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Chapter 5: How does Nathan Lane feel about performing in Death of a Salesman?
Oh, God, I've told this story so much, and my poor mother, I feel guilty now, but it's become a famous story, unfortunately.
This is Catholic guilt popping up here.
Oh, totally. You know, you have to understand, this was not a sophisticated woman. She had her prejudices. God knows.
She made you. That's got to count for something.
Well, sure. You know, but I think – look, I think what happened is they went to a wedding. My mother, of all the people in her family who are all drunks, she did not drink. But if she went out, she might – she would order one thing, a whiskey sour on the rocks and she would sort of nurse it through an evening.
But I think maybe this one night at the wedding, she had two and they had sex and, you know, the future hope of Broadway was born. Anyway, so what was the question?
The question was how did you tell your mother you were going to New York to act?
Okay. So we had been living in Rutherford together in this tiny one-bedroom apartment. And – or I slept on the – this is the most uncomfortable couch in history. And – I had done a production of Guys and Dolls, a non-equity production of Guys and Dolls at a dinner theater in Meadowbrook, New Jersey, where I played Nathan Detroit. And I had a crush on the guy playing Benny Southstreet.
And we – something had developed and he lived in New York. And so I was going to move to New York. And so I sat her down because we had been through a lot together and I thought – I had never lied to her. And I had been telling her I had been seeing a girl but I was seeing – I said to her, I know you think I've been seeing a girl but I've been seeing a guy.
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Chapter 6: What challenges did Lane face transitioning to dramatic roles?
And I saw you walk out on stage. And you took a bow. And there was some look in your face that I had not seen in the play but saw very clearly in that moment. It was almost as if there was like an exhale. There was so much emotion in that. And I could not help but think, oh, that's the kid who performed in the cafeteria at St. Peter's. That's everything there.
And I wonder every night, and this was just this week, but when you walk out there, what is that moment to you?
It's very, very powerful. There's the undeniable power of the play and where it takes you. Arthur Miller really tapped into something in this play. And it's the last bastion of community. It's people gathering around the campfire. It's the human connection. They're not on their phones until the curtain call and then they hold them up. Instead of looking at you, they're filming you.
Nevertheless, we have all come together to tell a story and to hear a story and hopefully to feel something, whether it's to laugh or to cry or to think. And this play gives you all of that and more. And It's just – it is that dream that I had as a kid.
And my friend Sammy Wasson, a wonderful film historian and writer, he always said to me, you can never forget that when you walk out there, way up in the balcony, there's some kid who is just like you and seeing you and thinking, gee, I'd like to do that someday. And that's who you're doing it for. All right. You're going to make me cry. At this age, I'm a very easy cry.
As Terrence McNally used to say, oh, at this age, I cry at food displays. Anyway, it's that. It's that thing that only happens in the theater. And it's why it feels like home and why it's still so special.
Well, if the theater is your home, I want to say that I think we have all benefited from and very much enjoyed being your guests. So thank you for that and appreciate the time.
Well put, sir. Thank you so much.
Nathan Lane spoke with guest interviewer Sam Fragoso, host of the interview podcast Talk Easy. Lane was just nominated for a Tony for his starring role as Willie Loman in the new Broadway revival of Arthur Miller's Death of a Salesman. Sam Fragoso is the host of the interview podcast Talk Easy.
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