Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
This is Fresh Air. I'm Tanya Mosley.
Chapter 2: What is the premise of 'Eleanor The Great'?
A 94-year-old woman, displaced and grieving the loss of her best friend and roommate, makes an audacious choice. She begins telling her deceased friend's story of surviving the Holocaust as if it were her own. It's deceptive and morally complicated, but for Eleanor, it's the first time in years she truly feels seen.
That's the premise of Eleanor the Great, opening tomorrow, a poignant and humorous film that moved first-time director Scarlett Johansson to tears when she initially read the script. To honor the story's weight, she cast actual Holocaust survivors alongside her lead. At the center is June Squibb, 94 years old and having the creative run of her life.
The Academy Award-nominated actor has worked for over six decades, but it wasn't until Nebraska in 2013 that she became a household name. Now with Eleanor the Great, following her recent triumph in Thelma, she's starring yet again as the lead in a story that centers on the very real experiences of someone still navigating life in their 90s.
Johansson herself knows something about breaking barriers. The two-time Oscar nominee has navigated the industry since she was a kid. She's built a career that spans intimate dramas like Marriage Story and global blockbusters like the Avengers films. And now she's directed a film that explores grief and forgiveness. And who has the right to tell someone's story?
Scarlett Johansson and June Squibb, welcome to Fresh Air. Thank you. Thank you very much. Well, June, you have this sharp wit in Eleanor the Great. We have seen this in several of your roles. But there is this mix of bite and charm, and I want to give listeners a sense of it. I want to start with a scene from early in the film.
Eleanor, your character, and her best friend Bessie, played by Rita Zohar, are shopping for kosher pickles when a stock boy makes the mistake of saying he thinks that all pickles are basically the same. And Eleanor basically lets him know what she thinks about that.
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Chapter 3: How did Scarlett Johansson feel when she read the script?
Excuse me. Where are the clothes in Scotia? They're supposed to be right here.
I guess we're out.
Hello. Do you have in the back maybe?
Well, we have a bunch of other pickles right here. And honestly, I think all pickles taste the same.
Excuse me? Eleanor. No. Are you listening to this? All pickles are the same. I heard. Hey, Charlie. Nice name. How long you been working here, Charlie?
I don't know.
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Chapter 4: What is June Squibb's experience in the film industry?
Few weeks. That's cute. Well, yesterday was delivery day. And you know how I know that? Because we've been coming here every Friday for the last 16 years. Can you count to 16, Charlie? Well, of course. Here's what you're going to do. You're going to go to the back. Bessie, point to the back so Charlie doesn't get lost. You're gonna turn left at the shampoo, go all the way down the aisle.
Now, I know it's complicated, Charlie, but stay with me and you'll find the pickles that my friend needs, okay? Okay, go fetch.
That was my guest June Squibb in Eleanor the Great, directed by Scarlett Johansson. June, the scene is definitely funny, but there is something more going on here because Eleanor is kind of asserting herself at the two of them being dismissed. And it's something that plays throughout the entire film. What drew you to this character?
I just felt she was such a human character and had so many – and she kept revealing herself, something new about her constantly in the script. And all that was very attractive to me, and it was well-written. So I just felt, yeah, I want to do this.
Is it true that you wrote Scarlett a letter once you signed on to this asking her to be a part of it?
Yes, when Scarlett was interested in directing it and the producers asked me if I would write a letter and they were going to include it in the package of letters or whatever it was they were sending Scarlett to try to convince her to direct the film. So I did. I don't think I said too much in it. I think probably something like, will you come and do the film?
And then June offered me a large cash sum, which I still have not yet received.
No, I didn't. Maybe a mocha blend or something like that, but not money.
Scarlett, I mentioned that this script made you cry when you read it. Do you remember that moment when you just knew you had to be a part of it?
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Chapter 5: How does Scarlett Johansson connect her personal experiences to directing?
And what could it be at this stage in her career? I mean, June said she turns a lot down. I'm sure she must because, you know, it's such a huge effort to commit to something like this for any actor. And I was just very intrigued. And it was clear to me—
Upon first reading it, okay, this is a character who suffers this devastating loss, and she is having this very challenging time navigating this. this move back to Manhattan after 40 years of not living there. And she's a 94-year-old woman who feels, you know, invisible in the current, you know, economy environment.
And, you know, then all of a sudden this plot twist, you know, which you described earlier, this lie that Eleanor tells, you know, in a moment of, I think, real deep loneliness and isolation. an attempt to connect with a community and what grows out of that lie was so unexpected. It just felt very surprising. And it's rare to feel surprised when you read a script.
A lot of times scripts are very formulaic or they're based on, you know, IP that you're familiar with or You know, you can kind of see where the story is going, but this one just felt really original and unique.
When you took on the challenge, you're like, okay, this is so interesting. I'm going to do this.
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Chapter 6: What moral questions are explored in 'Eleanor The Great'?
How did you wrestle with those moral questions as a director, making it funny, because it is very humorous, but also taking on such a heavy topic?
Yeah.
Well, I mean, the humor certainly was written in Tori Kamen, who wrote the script. You know, it was a sort of thesis that she built around her grandmother, who she was very, very close with, who similarly moved back to New York after many decades of living away.
You know, as a much older woman and those very biting lines, those salty lines, even from Rita's character, Bessie, are some of them are verbatim her grandmother's words. And so I and I grew up in New York. I, you know, had a. Jewish grandmother and who was also could be very dry and she was very funny. And I don't know, that humor felt familiar to me.
It was like dialogue, vocabulary that I just got. And so that was baked in. And of course, having June... with her incredible comedic timing and, you know, her expression and her vocal cadence. And, you know, she's the perfect person to be delivering those zingers. But as far as the sensitive, you know, balance and subject matter, you know, I think as a director—
And I think even as an actor, too, it's not really my job to kind of judge these characters and what they do. Or if I have any judgment, I'm probably not the right person to be supporting the story. I think it's, you know, I hope that the audience, if I do my job right, by the end of the film...
is able to abandon any judgment and have empathy and compassion for the characters and certainly for Eleanor's deception and understand why she does what she does.
Mm-hmm. Scarlett, you made this intentional choice to cast real Holocaust survivors in the group support scenes. How did that idea come together?
I think it was pretty obvious that that was necessary because when you start to talk about casting people for it, it just felt kind of like a phony, I wouldn't even know what I would be looking for exactly. It just felt very important and a must, an absolute must that we identify survivors that wanted to participate and then were able to participate.
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Chapter 7: Why did Scarlett choose to cast Holocaust survivors in the film?
And it's your own – I think your own responsibility to get yourself out of those – tight spots. Like, no one's going to do that for you, you know. And so I had the opportunity to do an Arthur Miller play called View from the Bridge that Greg Mosher was directing with Liev Schreiber and Michael Christopher and Jessica Hecht, who's in Eleanor the Great as well.
And I've always loved Arthur Miller and I had never done theater before, but I felt it was, oh, a chance to try something challenging that I, you know, hadn't seen in a long time. It was really through that process that I understood, oh, actually, I can sit and I can wait, you know, for the right roles to come in. that I suddenly felt more confident in my ability as an actor.
And so that's what I did. You know, I rejected the roles that were familiar to me and started working on things that were actively looking for roles that were things I had never done before. And it was a real turning point for me.
That play, you actually won the Tony Award for Best Featured Actress in 2010. That was a big pivotal time for you and maybe a confirmation of what you were doing.
I guess having, you know, an accolade like that, it shouldn't necessarily count as a confirmation, I guess, you know. I mean, it helps. But actually what it really was, what was so validating was actually being embraced by the Broadway community. That was what was so validating about that experience was, you know, meeting people.
a whole new group of directors and producers, and I felt like I was embraced, you know, with open arms and kind of being inducted into that family. It was profound, and it was validating, even more than the Tony win, although, like I said, that was nice. Just didn't hurt. It didn't hurt. It didn't hurt, no.
June, when you hear Scarlett talking about her path to breaking out of that persona, what were your early experiences in the theater like for you?
It's difficult because you're put in a niche, and it's an earning niche. It's a comfortable niche. But as Scarlett said, you have to do it yourself. I don't think there's any way anyone's going to do it for you. And in fact, you know, I did the same thing with the musical theater and becoming an actress, per se. And it's not easy. But, you know, it's ridiculous to have to do that.
It was ridiculous for Scarlett to have to do that. But that is what the whole industry tends towards, certainly.
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