Show notes
About our guest:Mariana Carvalho is a writer and career mentor. She was awarded as one of the El Mundo Boston Latino 30 Under 30 in 2022 for her efforts in Diversity and Inclusion in Brazil and Massachusetts and Mentor of the Year by WomenTech Network in 2023. In 2024, she co-authored the book “Women in Technology - How Diversity and Inclusion Will Change the Game in Organizations and Society”. She is the co-founder of Brazilians in Tech, a non-profit for women in Technology in Brazil. Mariana has 12 years of professional experience, the last seven in corporate America. Over the last six years, Mariana has mentored more than 200+ people from Brazil, USA, India, France, and Ireland. Mariana holds a Bachelor’s in Marketing, an MBA, and a Master of Science in Computer Science.Find our guest on:LinkedInThreadsInstagramTwitterWeb SiteFind us on:All of our social channels are on bento.me/geekingoutAll of Adriana's social channels are on bento.me/adrianamvillelaShow notes:Kaggle2048 GameWomen in Technology Publication on MediumThe Timeless Technology PodcastWiser Than Me with Julia Louis-Dreyfus (Podcast)Radia Perlman on the Timeless Technology PodcastMary Allen Wilkes on The Timeless Technology PodcastDr. Gladys B. West & Dr. Carolyn Oglesby on the Timeless Technology PodcastESPM, São PauloTest of English as a Foreign Language (TOEFL)Ali Luna on the Timeless Technolgoy Podcast (part 1 and part 2)Historically Black College and University (HBCU)Additional notes:Aicha Laafia on Geeking Out (podcast & YouTube)Adriana's article on Medium based on her KCD Porto talkTranscript:ADRIANA:Hey, fellow geeks. Welcome to Geeking Out, the podcast about all geeky aspects of software delivery DevOps, observability, reliability, and everything in between. I'm your host, Adriana Villela. Coming to you from Toronto, Canada. Geeking out with me today, I have Mariana Carvalho. Welcome, Mariana!MARIANA:Thank you. Thank you for having me.ADRIANA:I am super excited to have you, and always excited to have another Brazilian on the podcast.MARIANA:Yay.ADRIANA:It’s a treat. Being able to, like, connect with my culture. I think it's really important. I, I've, I've found in the last several years, the importance of reconnecting to your cultural roots, because I lived in such isolation from my cultural roots for a long time here in Canada. So it's been kind of nice to have that. So I love it when I meet other Brazilians.MARIANA:I me too. I mean, we can speak a little Portuguese too, but, you know, even though we speaking English, it's like we can see the culture in the way we talk to each other. You know, it it shows. So I love it.ADRIANA:Yeah, absolutely. And where are you calling from today?MARIANA:I'm calling from Boston, Massachusetts. So it's very cold here too.ADRIANA:Yeah. We are, we are definitely cold buddies. I think we both, both our cities have received a lot of snow as of the time of this recording. I think, Toronto about half a meter in, in like five days, which is a lot.MARIANA:Yeah. Same here. I was in D.C. last week, and it was also super windy and, many flights got canceled. I almost didn't come home. I know. It was awful, but we were safe and sound. And now it's so funny because I've been talking with my parents, and for them it's like almost 40°C. So the discrepancy is just so frightening.MARIANA:I don't know. Ai. It's frightening.ADRIANA:Yeah. It's wild like I, I'm originally from Rio de Janeiro, and I have family there who said right now, and we're recording this February 18th. So it's in the middle of summer in, in Brazil, 50 degrees and in Rio... 50 Celsius.MARIANA:Wow. Yeah.ADRIANA:I don’t, I can't even, I like I'm okay with 40. You know I it is my South American blood is okay with that. I'm not okay with -15. I'm okay with 40, but I can't even imagine 50. Like, that's scary.MARIANA:Yeah. It's changing so much and so quickly it feels that doesn't change quickly. But then all of a sudden then the extremes are the ones that I think it's wild to see. Yeah. Here and there. Right.ADRIANA:Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And you know and it's something I'll, I'll probably dig into a little bit later because I know like I connected you with, with a writer recently on your Medium publication and she does a lot of writing on sustainability actually. And she's also been a past guest on Geeking Out, so I, I would love to talk about that in a little bit. But first we have our icebreaker questions. Okay. Are you ready?MARIANA:Let's do it. Yes.ADRIANA:First question. Are you a lefty or already.MARIANA:Righty.ADRIANA:Okay. Do you prefer iPhone or Android?MARIANA:iPhone.ADRIANA:Me too. Yes, iPhone. All the way. Here's my iPhone.MARIANA:At home I have two iPads. I have a MacBook.ADRIANA:Yeah, yeah. Same. Same full. Fully integrated. Next question. I think I know your answer now. Do you prefer Mac, Linux, or Windows?MARIANA:Mac. Yeah.ADRIANA:Okay. Next one. Do you have a favorite programing language?MARIANA:Oh my gosh. I think Python, but that's so funny because I didn't learn Python. Doing my master's degree. Oh, sorry. That. Should I just answer and not explain why?ADRIANA:Please. Please. No. Go ahead, go ahead. I love it. Okay. I always tell people you can go as deep or not as deep as. Because I think it's okay to get to know a guest. So go ahead.MARIANA:Yeah I remember learning Python during during my master's degree. My ex-boyfriend at the time, he taught me how to like how to program in Python. Like using Kaggle is a website I think was acquired by Google. It was so fun to sort out some of the data sets there. And I was like, okay, this is so. Not easy. But it was just so natural to do it, you know, to sort out and I don't know, just to just to really code. I think I had the most fun coding Python, but then after I finished school and up and then when I started working in corporate, I never used it any more. So it is kind of rusty right now.Yeah, but I remember it being very, very fun. I remember I created a little game that was I think the name of the game is 2048. It’s a game that, you know, so I remember that. It's so addictive. And I remember I made like I created this little game just in a sandbox. And I was like, okay, how can I, you know, try to use my technical skills in fun things.And I remember using Python for the data set on Kaggle that was sorting out numbers, of the female Nobel Prize winners. You know, I was like, if I want to learn something using a technical skill, I better use that on something that I have fun with. So and that's usually something that I recommend to people. It's like if you want to create a portfolio or if you want to do something using a programing language, or maybe like some people are like learning how to deploy on different infrastructure as a service, right?So like, how can you do that? Having fun? Just try just do that through a game or through something that you're going to enjoy. So you don't give up in the middle of the process. So.ADRIANA:I love that. I love that so much because that's my same philosophy. If you're doing something fun, you will get obsessed over it. And you will have that motivation to find a solution. And I also agree with you on Python. Python was not my first programing language, and I spent, for listeners, viewers of the show. I spent most of my career in Java, which I've said many times, on the show, but, I learned Python later in life and fell in love with it because, as you said, it's so pleasant to code in. So I can I can totally relate. Okay. Next question. Do you prefer dev or ops?MARIANA:I think dev.ADRIANA:All right. Cool. Next one. Do you prefer JSON or YAML JSON?MARIANA:I worked with JSON before, so that's the one that I.ADRIANA:Fair enough. Fair enough.MARIANA:Yeah.ADRIANA:And do you prefer spaces or tabs?MARIANA:Spaces.ADRIANA:Okay. And two more questions. Do you prefer consuming content through video or text?MARIANA:Oh, text I love reading. Writing full text.ADRIANA:I would have been surprised if you said, video because because you, you have a publication on Medium, but have never know. I've had people who are like, oh, I thought you like video more because you do the podcast as a video. I'm like, no. MARIANA:I'm.... You like creating video, right? But like to consume is different. Yeah, I love reading. I think it has more of the pause, and the video has a lot of the stimuli that I don't know if I like for long term, I, I prefer reading for sure.ADRIANA:I get too distracted by video.MARIANA:Yeah.ADRIANA:Like you said, stimuli. Okay. Final question. What is your superpower?MARIANA:Oh, I got my superpower. Well. I love connecting people with each other. That's something that I enjoy doing. And, I feel that is very altruistic. I don't know, I feel that I, I don't gain anything out of connecting people with each other, but I do because I, I genuinely care of, like, two things being put together. There's a book. I don't know. I don't know the name of the book in English, but there's a phrase that says the word changes when two things that that have never been together, they meet. It's something like that. Yeah. And I think it's beautiful because any encounter can really change the course of one's life. One’s life. So yeah, I love connecting people.ADRIANA:Oh, that's so great. Yeah, that that's such a great superpower. And I think it's such an important superpower. And I think it's like so important to like, for women in tech, having having those connections, being able to connect, other women to each other because I think we’re... sometimes it's hard for us to find each other. So to be able to connect each other and introduce people to other awesome people, I think is such a such a lovely gift to the world. So, yeah, absolutely.MARIANA:And I think you can do it. And I think you do that too. So it's it's a great gift. And what's your superpower?ADRIANA:Oh, mine. I would say it's picking up things fast and then writing about them, like. So learning things fast and then writing about my learnings in an accessible manner, I would say, is my superpower.MARIANA:Okay, I love that. Well, you you did that also for the listeners. I also interviewed Adriana for my podcast. And I think the article that you wrote, on top of a, a lecture you gave in Portugal that shows that too.ADRIANA:Yeah, yeah, I, I'm still blown away. So for, for folks who are, listening, watching so I, I gave a keynote at KCD Porto last fall and, the talk unfortunately wasn't recorded. And I thought, well, I still want to bring this to the masses. So I wrote it up as a blog post and, and then I had at that point been submitting articles on Medium to your publication, and, and then you were kind enough to boost that, article. And I got like, so many, so many reads on that article. It's like mind blowing. I'm, I'm so touched by the number of people who have, like, responded to it, added it to their reading lists. People who are influenced by it. I think it's it's really cool to have that effect. And I thank you for, for that boost on Medium because.MARIANA:Of course! I didn't do anything. You did the hard work, you wrote it.ADRIANA:And, you know, I think this is a great segue to into, you know, talking about, talking about your, your publication on Medium. And then if we could walk back from there, talking about, like, how you got, how you got your start in tech, but. Yeah, let's let's start first with your Medium publication. Tell us what it is, where we can find it. And I'll, I'll include a link to it in the show notes as well.MARIANA:Amazing. Thank you so much. The the website is medium.com/womenintechnology. And you can find all the articles there that are written by our writers. So if anyone wants to start writing a Medium, they can create an account, they can write for Women in Technology, they can write for other publications out there that are also technical, non technical. There are many topics for for the listeners who are interested in different areas. And I created Woman in Technology, Adriana, back in 2023 when I left my corporate job and I always loved writing, I started my blog called Hello Mari World, because “hello world” probably the listeners know, is the first line of code that we learn how to code. And, when I was doing my master's in computer science back in July 2017, I was finishing my internship, and by that time I was like, that's super cool. I'm learning so much. I'm experiencing all these great things here. During my master's, during the internship, learning, connecting with people, learning more about technology. And I wish someone had helped me in the past.So why not just start sharing with the word the things that I'm learning along the way? So my blog started. There was also HelloMariWorld.com and then now today is my website. But before it was just a blog. Just a blog. It was a blog. And then I transitioned to other platforms that I was writing for. I wrote a lot of about my journey in the States as, Brazilian, and there was other websites for women in like women traveling or woman living overseas, living overseas.And then I realized when I left my corporate role at Dell I was like, I still want to be writing and connecting with other women. So let me continue writing on Medium. I was already a writer there, but why not create my own community, and do things differently? So that was amazing because I was able to connect with women from many different countries, not only the United States where I am today, or Brazil and, the community has grown.We have more than 2000 subscribers today, and we have almost 500. Yeah, and almost 500 women who are writers. Not everyone writes every every month or every week. We have a people who write more than the others. So there's no mandatory commitment for someone to be writing for the for the publication. And I think just the community and connecting with women, listening to their stories, and be able to contribute to what Medium wants to be online, there's no ads on Medium.That's something that I really like, because I feel so overwhelmed in other social social media platforms. So Medium is my cozy, comfy place corner on the internet to work where I can connect with other women and it's just mind blowing to see how people are really willing to help each other through their writing and through their experiences.So Women in Technology is a publication for people who identify themselves as women, who are eager to share, who are eager to learn, and, having you, for example, having you in the podcast not only as a writer for the publication, but being able to interview interview... being able to interview you and having you as a guest speaker and hearing your voice is very empowering for the other readers that that maybe want to consume information in a different way, not just through the writing form to the written form, but also listening to what you have to say. So yeah.ADRIANA:Yeah, that's so great. And, I, I'm a huge fan. I love what you do. And, you know, I and the way we met was, I think I had published one of my articles on Medium, and then you left a note saying, hey, would you like to write for my publication? I'm like, oh, cool.MARIANA:Yeah.ADRIANA:But it's so great. And I'm so glad that you invited me. And it's it's such a lovely publication, and I love to be able to, you know, help to empower women through your publication and, like you, I'm a huge fan of Medium. I learned a lot through Medium. And I think it's it's a great way to, you know, to consume content and to meet other people.So. Yeah, I, I love what you're doing. And, you know, I also, you know, I, I think after we spoke, I connected you with, Aicha Laafia, who was a guest on, on this podcast, to be also a writer, on your publication. And she's been on fire. She's been, like, publishing all sorts of articles on on Medium. It's been great.MARIANA:Yeah, yeah.ADRIANA:And her topic is so great. She's so passionate about it. She talks a lot about sustainability in tech. Which is wonderful and very timely, I would say, as well.MARIANA:Very important for, for what we're living today.ADRIANA:Exactly, exactly. Yeah. Given given this wild weather, even though it's funny, you know, we're we're talking about like the, the, the snowfall that we've been experiencing I know that this what we're having Toronto right now this winter is like a much more normal winter than we've been having in the last several years where, it feels like we're spending more time below zero and actually getting snow versus past years.I think with climate change, we've been experiencing more temperatures hovering just below to just above zero. It would snow one day and then it would all melt the next day, which is really weird. And yeah, and I think being able to bring awareness to people and making people, realize like use of tech has an impact, people don't realize that there's an impact to using the the programing language that you choose, can have an impact on the infrastructure that you choose. People, you know, we love AI these days. AI consumes a lot of, consumes a lot of power. And so being able to educate folks on that is, is so important.MARIANA:Absolutely. Yeah. It's not just using ChatGPT for any of your needs is understanding what it's being technically consumed by the data base in the background, how the servers are running. Right? We don't know much of that, as the mainstream people don't necessarily know what is happening behind the scenes, aka behind the servers. So and I feel that there's not a lot of a benchmark today. I know there are researchers. I know there are organizations that are coming together to put those guardrails in place because they are needed. They are needed. I'm not a specialist in that, but at least we're seeing some movement to going to the right direction.ADRIANA:Exactly. And your publication becomes a platform for spreading that that word as well.MARIANA:Yeah. And that's exactly why, when I read an article that I think can really resonate with people, not only your tech career experience, but if there is an article in technology that can have an impact, and it's going to explain to people in a easy to understand way, those are the types of articles that we want to see in the in the publication that we want to see on Medium, right. Things are going to help people really learn and understand. If you prefer YouTube, go for it. You go to YouTube, go learn on YouTube. Some people are more visual. Great, but just educate yourself because it's empowering. Education is empowering.ADRIANA:Yeah. And what you said in terms of making, making it accessible, because I, you know, I, I, I feel like I'm kind of over the days of, like, dry, boring technical content. Why does it have to be boring?MARIANA:Exactly.ADRIANA:And we're not all geniuses. We don't understand, like, some of these complicated topics that, you know, other people are, like, too smart for their own good and terrible at explaining. We need to dumb it down. Dumb it down for me. Like, please, I want you to dumb it down for me. I welcome it in and I and I don't see that in a condescending manner. Just you know, like, it's a lot easier for my brain to process it when, when you speak to me and in ways that are more understandable and are less abstract. So I.MARIANA:I love that. I love that I interviewed, Radia Perlman for the podcast The Timeless Technology Podcast. Adriana is one podcast that came also from the Woman in Technology publication radio. She was the network engineer that developed the STP protocol, the Spanning Tree protocol. That's basically what everyone uses today for devices to communicate with each other. And I was asking her, like I didn't, I think I asked her about her superpower, but before that she mentioned something.One of the things that she was really good at is explain things in a very easy way, and the power of that. So it's not in a condensed sending way that you mentioned, but it's a way of empowering the other person. If you come to me with a technical term that I've never heard about, what a what a pleasant surprise that you were going to be the one to explain that to me for the first time, you know, just approach that in a way of, okay! You don't know. It's totally okay that you don't know. I'm going to do my best to explain to you so you can really enjoy learning that. So I think the teaching and, being the teacher and the student in life, it's it's that balance knowing that we don't know so much and bringing that ignorance mindset. You know, I'm here to learn.Yeah. And if you can explain to me in a very accessible way, it's is the perfect match into learning because technology can be very, very complex. And it's not for us to say, oh, I don't want to learn because it's too complex for me. Okay, what what you don't know? And why do you want to know? Right. And then finding people out there because there are people out there willing to explain from a place of humility, from a place of it's okay that you don't know. And I love that. That's that's mentoring too.ADRIANA:Yes. Oh my God, that's so true. And I think that's so important to, you know. Yeah. Explain it from, from a place of, of humility and, and this recognition that you don't know all the answers and it's okay to not know.MARIANA:It's so relieving.ADRIANA:Right?! Yes, yes, I know I used to like in my younger days, I used to think I have to know all the answers. And it's like, why? So now I'll be in meetings. I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm new. Can you just explain this to me? I'm not familiar with this term.MARIANA:Yeah, it's the beginner mindset I love that. Yeah, the beginner's mindset.ADRIANA:More people need to embrace this even. And you know, I always say, like, you, you should never be the smartest person in the room because otherwise you have nothing left to learn.MARIANA:Exactly, exactly. Yeah.ADRIANA:So, yeah. I want to I want to just go back a little bit because you mentioned, your second podcast that you have, what do you tell folks about that? Because it's such a cool topic. And also, what inspired you to come up with that idea?MARIANA:You mean The Timeless Technology Podcast?ADRIANA:Yeah.MARIANA:Yeah. There's a podcast called Wiser Than Me by Julia Louis-Dreyfus from Seinfield. Oh my gosh, I love this podcast. She I think she's 70- something? And she interviews women who are older than her and wiser than her. Yeah. And that I was obsessed of listening to her podcast. Right. She interviews like celebrities, Hollywood actresses. Reporters, like many things, writers. And then there was one time that I was like, I'm working technology. I am learning so much, but I'm just 32, you know? What do I know about life? I don't I know nothing, I know nothing, And I was like, okay, how can I talk with women that just did some amazing work in technology that we have no idea of.And then I started researching, researching about women. And I learned about Mary Ellen Wilkes was my first guest, and she was responsible for developing the first operating system for personal computing computer in the 60s. And then I was like, okay, I need to talk. Is she alive? First question is, she was alive. And then I started researching about other women. And some of them already passed away. Some of them were still alive. Some of them don't reply to my emails. And then Mary Ellen, I it was so hard to find her. Adriana. So hard. I went in contact with Wellesley College. They connect me with her. She responded to my email, you know, like I had to dig, dig, dig. It was like a journalistic.ADRIANA:Yeah, I was gonna say, like. That’s hard-core.MARIANA:I love that work. FBI type of work. I love it. And she she responded to me. She was like, yes, of course I'd love to participate on your project. It was just a project, right? It's kind of a historical, historical project, like search. And then, I talked to her and then I invited some other women, Radia. And at first I was like, they would never respond to me. They are just so important, you know? And then I started receiving those emails, and I would love to participate. I would love to share. And I was like, okay, I am into something here. Those women, they have their their life stories. And they also made a long lasting impact in technology on things that we are used in today.And Mary Ellen was a huge example. Radia Perlman was another great example. I was able to interview Doctor Carolyn Oglesby. She's the daughter of Doctor Gladys West, the woman who developed GPS.ADRIANA:Damn!MARIANA:In the 60s for the government. And I was like, do people... does everyone know that this woman was the one that helped create what we use today? Every single day in everywhere we go. So it was mind blowing for... to me to understand of those some of these women, they are alive and I want to register their voices. I, you know, like yes, you can read about them, you can read articles about them. There's so many resources online. But I want to ask them, I want to hear their voices. I love that. I love podcasts, right. So, so why not register in the form of audio? And then the project started and we are almost done with season one. And I'm already starting interview with people for season two. And it's been amazing. It's been. So much of their ideas are just disrupting my own ideas of life, about marriage, about how to raise their kids. And it's been beautiful. Every time that I finish a recording... Adriana, you interview people and I'm sure many off your guests, you feel so inspired by. I finish my recordings with them and I need time to process, you know, like, what did I just listen? So know you? Yeah, it's I don't know, it's very, heartwarming to to be doing this project and being able to to register their voices.ADRIANA:Yeah. Yeah.MARIANA:To document their voices.ADRIANA:That it's so inspiring. What a beautiful story. And for for those who. And it's going to be in the show notes. But, if you're listening, it's called the Timeless Technology podcast. And, you know, so many cool lessons from this first of all, the fact that you're like, you pushed past the fear of like, why would they want to talk to me and still did it? And then you realize, of... yeah, some of them do want to talk to me. And I think that's amazing. And I think that's an incredible lesson to be learned. It's like even if you are unsure, just go for it.MARIANA:Exactly. I have a phrase that I say to my mentees: “It's not your job to say ‘no’ to yourself.” You are not the one saying “no” to yourself, you know, like, let the recruiter tell, you “no”. Let the, your job is to ask for the things that you want. And then when, when I look back at my middle eight years, nine years, leaving the United States, everything that I was able to accomplish was because I asked for.ADRIANA:Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think it's so important to just summon the courage to ask, because the worst that can happen is “no”, right? But as you said, you're not saying no to yourself. You're saying yes to yourself. Let someone else give you the “no”. Hopefully it won't be a “no.”MARIANA:Exactly.ADRIANA:That’s so lovely. That's so lovely. And I think, like, how cool is it to, you know. I think we really underestimate how much women had an effect in history because unfortunately, you know, these things tend to get overlooked, buried, whatever. Right? Because history is full of, like, men. We see it a lot in the history books. All these like, powerful men doing things. But there's like, so many powerful women, incredible women doing incredible things. So thank you for sharing those stories. That's incredible. So inspired. I'm going to make sure I subscribe to this podcast. And I'm going to check out the. Also the one from, Julia Louis-Dreyfus, which you said is called Wiser Than Me, right?MARIANA:Yes. Wiser Than Me.ADRIANA:Awesome, awesome. And you know, I want to take another a bit of another step back, and talk about, like, your career in tech. How did you, how did you start, your career in tech? You mentioned that you did a Master's in Computer Science. Was your undergrad also tech-related, or was it non-tech-related?MARIANA:That's a great question. My bachelor's was in marketing. I studied marketing at ESPM in Brazil, in São Paulo. Then I had a scholarship. I like mentioning that because I come from a middle class, so I always had scholarships. All my elementary, high school and then bachelors during my bachelors. Then I moved to Rio to do a Master’s. An MBA Master’s, also with a scholarship.And then at the time in 2015, I came to the States, I met, a chair of the Department of for a computer science school in Mississippi, and he asked me if I had if I was interested in coming to the States with a scholarship. No, no, he didn't mention the scholarship to study computer science. And I told him I'm finishing my MBA and I wouldn't be able to move here. Like I wouldn't be able to afford.And then after I think 6 or 7 months, I came back again and he offered me a scholarship. I was dating someone that was also in the in the computer science path at the time. And then he was like, if I give you a scholarship, would you be able to would you be interested in coming, to study computer science to do a master's degree?Because I don't have any other women in my in my lab, in the lab, in the, in the department. And I was like, oh, with a scholarship. I've played that game, you know? I know how it is and work so hard. So yes, sure. So I finished my MBA and then I applied. I remember I still remember to this day. It was Carnaval in Brazil 2016, I remember I did I was living in Rio de Janeiro... I know, I know, I missed all the parties of that last Carnaval in Rio because I had to take my TOEFL, TOEFL exam to apply for the to apply for the, the the Master’s. And I remember I did that and then I got selected, I became a assistant, a, TA, a teaching assistant at the time for a professor.I was able to get a scholarship. I was able to get assistantship. And that's a question that I receive all the time. Like, why? Why Mississippi? You’re living in Boston now. Why Mississippi first? And I got a scholarship. I wouldn't say no to a scholarship. You know, full ride scholarship. It's like opened so many doors for me. And then afterwards. So the journey was just like looking at your opportunities, the opportunities that are presented to you and just assessing, okay, where they're going to take me. And I embrace the ones that I saw that had the potential to take me somewhere else, somewhere better that I was going to be able to grow. So in that movement, I didn't explain why I was interested in computer science, too.I was working in the alumni organization for ESPM in Rio at the time. We were working on a project to create an intra, like internal network for for ex students, for like former students, alumni. And I was so interested in learning what things were happening behind the scenes, like, okay, how are the developers creating that? And, I thought that was a great opportunity to learn more about the things that I was only able to see. I wasn't able to code because I didn't know. So I was like, okay, why not? Is opportunity being presented? I can learn about. And I thought that technology was just coding and programing. Yeah, little did I know because I became a solutions engineer afterwards working in cloud computing.So technology is so much more advanced than we think. And I'm very but I'm glad I had a very narrow mind at the time, at the possibilities. But throughout the journey you can expand and learn more. So I'm very grateful that I that I took that path and it was a it was a change. It was a life changing decision, for sure.ADRIANA:That's so cool. And, you know, it's it's it's really cool too, because I think it's a it's such a positive message, like, you know, it's one thing to have an opportunity presented, but it's what you do with that opportunity. And you took that opportunity and you took it like to the next level. And you've built like a career out of it just because you said yes to that opportunity.And it's open so many doors, which is incredible. I also want to mention to folks who aren't familiar with the Brazilian school system, because we do have public school in Brazil, but usually, if you want to get a decent education, it means you have to go to a private school, which means cha-ching So even going to a quote unquote regular high school costs you money, which is why. You know. Yeah, I mean, as you said, the middle class, you know, to have a decent shot at a good elementary, high school, etc., scholarships provide those opportunities. Different story if you're rich. Right?MARIANA:Totally different story. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.ADRIANA:Yeah. Which is, it's interesting because we we take that for granted, I think in, in Canada and the US and in many European countries where, you know, you have, you have the public education system where you have a decent shot at getting a decent education system. And even like countries in Europe where like universities, either free or very cheap, which is kind of nice because that that's one thing the US can be very, it can be very pricey to go to school in the US.MARIANA:Absolutely. Yeah. And, sometimes decent education means getting a decent job and a good job in a high, high, high paying job. And another funny story, interview Ali Luna. She is a scientist at NASA, and she went to San José State University, and she was telling me during the interview how much, like, how many students came up to her and ask her like, oh, probably you went to the Ivy League, you went to MIT, you got your your aerospace engineering degree in X, Y, and Z place.And she was like, no, it was a state university in California, so I did it. You can do it too. And you can be impactful as well. So never for the listeners, never let... just because you maybe you are going to a community college, for example. Right? Community college is something very common here in the States, especially if you don't have access to those private schools. Expensive schools you can take, you can put you in the right path if you know how to take the right opportunities to go after whatever you want. So yes, I went to HBCU. Jackson State University is a HBCU college, right? Historically Black College and University. And maybe because I didn't know that it wasn't a big school, I was like, I'm going to try to find the best job I can, and I got a job offer to work for Dell.That was that is one of the largest organizations, tech organizations in the world. So never let the place you are today just dictate whatever opportunity comes next.ADRIANA:Yes, that's so important because I think, it's very it's it's very easy to get hung up on, like where you went to school, what kind of degree you have. And I've, I've interviewed my fair share of people on this podcast where some people didn't go to university and they have very successful tech careers. Some people studied, you know, stuff completely unrelated to what they ended up doing and, you know, took the path of going to like a coding bootcamp to level up or just got experience out in the field.But it's it's really what these folks have done with the opportunities given to them. Don't, as you said, don't don't let your, your schooling dictate, you know, your your career path because and especially in tech, as we've found out, it's it's open to so many, so many people from different walks of life.MARIANA:Yeah.ADRIANA:Well that's awesome I mean I could keep, keep on chatting forever and ever. But unfortunately we are coming up on time. Before we go. I you've, you've given us so many words of wisdom, I was wondering if you had any final parting words of wisdom for our audience today.MARIANA:I just want to thank you for having me today. Thank you for writing for the, for the Woman in Technology publication. Thank you for interviewing other people and also documenting their journeys that you do in your podcast here, Geeking Out. So I think it's I don't know, it's it's something that we do passionately speaking with others.But at the end of the day. But at the end of the day, they really, can really impact other people. If there's just one listener to listen to us and take something positive out of our conversation is already amazing. What I would say is, if you are in technology, if you're passionate about something, try to have fun while you were doing it.I think that summarizes the things that we were talking about. That too.ADRIANA:That's amazing. Well, thank you so much for, geeking out with me today, Mariana. Y'all, don't forget to subscribe and be sure to check the show notes for additional resources and to connect with us and our guests on social media. Until next time...MARIANA:Peace out, geek out.ADRIANA:Geeking Out is hosted and produced by me, Adriana Villela. I also compose and perform the theme music on my trusty clarinet. Geeking Out is also produced by my daughter, Hannah Maxwell, who, incidentally, designed all of the cool graphics. Be sure to follow us on all the socials by going to bento.me/geekingout.