Show notes
Key takeaways:The secret sauce to a successful podcast is consistency, connection, and continuing to show up.Podcasting work continues long after the recording is doneIf you keep showing up with that same level of honesty and value, you're not just building an audience, you're building a community.It's important to lead communities with clarity and care, by not just starting conversations, but also holding space for people.Good social media marketing isn't about going viral. It's about showing up consistently with something real to say.Social is a 2-way street. It's about posting and engaging with your audience.Every line in social media copy has a job to do, and it has to grab your audience's attention in 1-2 seconds.Platform fluency matters. What works in one social media platform might not work in another.Great copy is part psychology, part storytelling and part restraint.AI is a useful tool for writing, but it does not replace one's "writing voice".You can and should be repurposing content, because not everyone will see all of your posts all of the time.Being a working mom in tech means that there's no off switch. You have to communicate clearly, be efficient, and make peace with not being polished all the time.About our guest:Mandy Moore is a seasoned marketer, podcast producer, and storyteller with over 15 years of experience helping tech companies and creative brands build content that actually connects. She's the voice behind ExHotMess.net, a blog where she writes raw, real stories about recovery, resilience, and life in the messy middle. When she's not helping others find their voice, she's usually geeking out over astrology, audio editing, or a perfectly crafted sentence.Find our guest on:InstagramBlueskyLinkedInMastodonFind us on:All of our social channels are on bento.me/geekingoutAll of Adriana's social channels are on bento.me/adrianamvillelaShow notes:On-Call Me Maybe PodcastMandy's LinkedIn post on the importance of writing with heartThe Happiness Lab (episode with Dr. Vivek Murthy, former US Surgeon General)Mandy's BlogTranscript:ADRIANA:Hey everyone, welcome to Geeking Out, the podcast, in which we dive into the career journeys of some of the amazing humans in tech and geek out on topics like software development, DevOps, Observability, reliability, and everything in between. I'm your host, Adriana Villela, coming to you from Toronto, Canada. And geeking out with me today, I have Mandy Moore. Welcome, Mandy.MANDY:Hello.ADRIANA:Hey, I'm super excited to have you on here. And we have a really cool connection because, Mandy used to be the producer of On-Call Me Maybe, which is the podcast that Ana Margarita Medina and I used to do back in our Lightstep days, which feels like forever ago, but it wasn't like that long ago.MANDY:I love those days. I miss those days.ADRIANA:Yeah. They were. They were fun times. And where are you calling from, Mandy?MANDY:I am from calling in from York, Pennsylvania.ADRIANA:Awesome fellow east coaster. Love it. Cool. Well, let's launch into the icebreaker questions. Are you ready?MANDY:Sure.ADRIANA:Okay, let's do it. So first question. Are you a lefty or a righty?MANDY:I'm a lefty.ADRIANA:Oh my God, me too!MANDY:We've got some special skills.ADRIANA:We do! We do! And are you are you like a everything lefty or a, like some things you do right handed. Like I can't mouse left handed.MANDY:No. I'm ambidextrous, so I write left handed and I eat left handed. But like I do all sports right handed, and I cut right handed.ADRIANA:No way!MANDY:I, I, I do lots of things right handed.ADRIANA:That's so cool. It's so interesting to talk to, fellow lefties about, like, the extent of their of their leftieness.MANDY:Yeah, it's all over the place.ADRIANA:It is. Oooh, fun! Awesome. Okay. Next question. Are you an iPhone or Android gal?MANDY:iPhone.ADRIANA:Awesome. Fellow iPhone-er. For computers, do you prefer Mac, Linux, or Windows?MANDY:Mac.ADRIANA:Same. Same. Do you have a favorite programing language?MANDY:No, I don't, I don't I'm not a programmer. I just work tech adjacent.ADRIANA:I love it, I love it, and it's so fun to like, meet all sorts of folks who are tech adjacent, and I’ve had a few on the podcast as well. So we will we will be digging more into that. Okay. Two more questions left. Do you prefer to consume your content using, through video or text?MANDY:Text.ADRIANA:And final question what is your superpower?MANDY:Ooh, my superpower is being able to tell a good story.ADRIANA:Ooh, fantastic. And so important, also, like in in the type of work that you do as well. Right.MANDY:Exactly, exactly. Lots of storytelling involved in marketing and content marketing, tech marketing, all that kind of stuff.ADRIANA:Well, awesome. I think this is a good segue to get into, your tech journey. Because as you mentioned, you're you're tech adjacent. So, what you tell us a little bit about that.MANDY:Yeah. So I didn't set out to work in tech. I was a single mom on government assistance, just trying to survive. And this was about 15 years ago. I answered a Craigslist ad from a software developer who needed administrative help, like answering emails and scheduling meetings and doing kind of easy stuff. So I answered that ad, and he hired me, and a few weeks, and he asked if I could edit his podcast, and I said, “Pod what?”I had no idea what a podcast even was, but I know that I needed, you know, the money and the work. So I spent a few... a weekend, heads down, figuring it out, playing with it, and, free software, open source software called Audacity. And, from there, I did such a solid job that he started just sending me referrals. And within a year, I went from food stamps to running a freelance business. So that... that one scrappy “Yes” you know, turned into a 15 year career in digital marketing, podcast production and content strategy, mostly in the tech and software space. So I've edited over 10,000 edit... or I've edited over 10,000 hours of audio, launched and grown shows, built social strategies, and worked with dev teams, founders and creators around the world.And I did it all while learning on the job, saying yes before I was ready, and never letting anyone else define what I was capable of.ADRIANA:That is so amazing, and I love the whole. Like your whole journey is incredible and you know it. It's it's cool because I feel like that's the kind of mindset that you need in, in software engineering is like being willing to learn and being able to learn quickly. So that's so that's, that's so awesome. And I and I think like another thing that you mentioned, which I really love, is that you, even though you didn't have the skills, you said yes to it and and you gave yourself the skills which you know, I, I've talked to so many women in tech who are like, I don't want to apply for this job because I, I need more time to build up my skills. And I don't think I have enough skills. And you're like, nope, I bet on myself. I'm doing this.MANDY:Yeah. You know, at first I didn't even realize I was building a career. I was just following the work. I, I kept saying yes to new challenges managing social writing, blog post, building content, calendars, learning SEO, editing more podcasts. You know, like every client taught me something new. And eventually I realized that I wasn't just survival anymore, that I was actually just really good at this. And over time, I carved out a niche working mostly with tech companies and dev focused brands. So I loved it because it blended creativity with systems. I could help founders find their voice and launch podcasts that actually connected, and create strategies that weren't just performative, but real.ADRIANA:That's great. And, you know, for the work that you've done on, on various podcasts, what what have you seen as like the secret sauce to a successful podcast?MANDY:The secret sauce to successful podcast. I really think it comes from being able to, you know, have consistency and connection, consistency and showing up, releasing on schedule and and keeping the quality high and having and connection and knowing who you're talking to and why they should care. You know, people think they need to be flashy or go viral, but the truth is, like, if you can speak directly to your niche like you're in their head, they'll come back. You know, that's what builds trust. That's that's what builds community. And, you know, here's what most people overlook. The work doesn't end when you hit publish. You've got to market the episode and slice it up and share it and quote it and turn it into social blogs, emails, whatever helps the content live longer than the 45 minutes in somebody's podcast app. You know, the best shows I've worked on have a clear voice, a strong point of view, and a host who gives a damn. You know? Yeah, you can't fake that.ADRIANA:Yeah, that's so true. That's so true. And, you know, it's it's cool because I learned so much from you, when you were producing On-Call Me Maybe for us, because I didn't know any of those things. And I remember even, like, that was my first time ever, ever hosting a podcast. And I was like, oh, my God, I am so terrified. And then when I started this podcast, I'm like, you know, I went from having a co-host to not having a co-host to and having to do everything myself, and it is so much work, and especially, as you said, to keep that content going even long past when the episode drops. Like, I swear I spend a lot of my time, you know, picking like, the perfect audiograms for my podcast. And it's like, every time I do it, I'm like, oh my God, this is like so much work. But then you, like, find that perfect quote and you're like, oh, it was so worth it.MANDY:Yeah. Now... people love the idea of having a podcast, but what they don't always love is the actual work that goes into making it good. You know, it's not just hopping on zoom and chatting with your friend for 45 minutes. There's prep and scripting and guest management and audio editing, writing the show notes and upload, promoting repurposing clips for social.And then there's the tracking, the analytics everybody's most fun for, and then doing it again next week and the week after that. So a great podcast really takes intention and stamina. You have to care enough to keep showing up even when you're tired and even when the downloads are low and even when no one's cheering you on yet.ADRIANA:Yeah, that's so true. That's so true. And I think being mindful of like, you know, putting in the effort for the show notes, putting in the effort for transcription. That's another thing that I learned from you. Like you always provided us with transcripts for On-Call Me Maybe. And again, it's like such a tedious process to like and even with tools at our disposal, like I, you know, I use the Adobe suite for, for the transcription of my podcast now and it's like it does a decent job, but I have to make sure it's not spewing shit.So, like, I have to go through and I'm like replaying the whole thing as I'm, as I'm going and, and like for me, the, the the podcasts that you've worked with, have they been mostly audio or have you done a combination of audio and video?MANDY:I've done both. I do mostly audio podcast, but on occasion I do video as well.ADRIANA:And what's how have you found the difference in in editing the audio podcast versus the video? The ones that are like video and audio.MANDY:I mean, it's obviously technically it's going to be a little bit harder to edit video podcasts in general, but, audio, I think I find it very relaxing when I audio edit, I kind of look at it as putting a puzzle together and just kind of sitting down and editing out like you can with audio. You can really get into the nitty gritty and edit out those ums and, and the, the things that you don't want to make it into the conversation. Video is harder to do that. You have to really be mindful where your cuts are and so does your subject. So that's where it gets a little dicey.ADRIANA:Yeah, that's so true. I I've had instances where I'm like cutting the video and and I'm just listening to it. I'm like, oh that sounds great. And then you look at the, the, at the video itself and you see like someone jolting and you're like. Crap. So yeah, definitely have to be mindful of, of those things. Now switching gears a little bit, because you mentioned that you do a lot of like community building work. So you said like your tech journey started off, with the podcast editing. How did you, move into, like, the community building stuff?MANDY:Yeah. So when I started doing the podcasting work, I got into community, when, the developer wanted, you know, started to have fans of the shows. So you need a place for those fans to kind of talk and interact. So those kind of became Slack communities or Discord communities and stuff like that. So, for me, podcasting, it isn't just about content, it's also community building. So that shows don't just inform people, they make people feel seen. When a listener hears a host ask the exact question they've been wondering, or when a guest shares something that hits a nerve, that creates a bond. And if you keep showing up with that same level of honesty and value, you're not just building an audience, you're building a community.And that doesn't stop at the mic. So community is built in comments, and in DMs, and in the way you repurpose episodes into content that invites conversation. I've worked with shows where the podcast was just the entry point. You know what really grew the brand was what happened after the episode. You know, the discussions, the emails, the real relationships.ADRIANA:Oh, wow, that's so cool. So how do you, how how do you manage, how do you manage those conversations? Like when you're, when you're building out the community, are you like, are you there as a moderator? Do you like make comments as well? Like how how does that work?MANDY:When you're building a community, especially, one invites vulnerability or depth, you have to lead with clarity and care. So you're not just starting conversations, you're holding space for people. And that means managing tone, expectations and boundaries. And I always say, you know, set the vibe first. What kind of space is this? What's okay here and what's not. You know, people respond to structure that feels safe, not restrictive.So I try to model the kind of communication that I want to see. And that's raw and real and honest and respectful. And if things veer off course, we don't avoid it. We just address it head on. But with compassion. You know, community management isn't just deleting comments, it's stewarding energy. It's knowing when to step in, when to stay back, and when to remind folks, you know, we're here to connect, not perform. So the biggest thing I learned is people don't need you to have all the answers. They just need to know that you're listening and that you care.ADRIANA:Yeah, that's so important. And I think, you know, having a place where people can be vulnerable and not have like retaliation against them for being vulnerable, like providing a safe space. For people to coexist, I think is so important, especially, like, you know, the, the, the interwebs are so, rife with, with toxicity these days. So, so being able to, to provide that is so important.MANDY:Absolutely.ADRIANA:Now, you know, let's talk a little bit about, social media marketing because, I find it's so interesting to like writing social media copy versus like, writing a blog post is such a different beast. Can you talk a little bit about, like what. What goes into writing social media copy and, and even, like, making, you know, thoughtful decisions based on the social media platform that you're, you're posting on as well.MANDY:Yeah. So social media marketing gets a bad rap because people think it's either mindless scrolling or dancing on TikTok. But at its core, it's relationship building at scale. So good social isn't about going viral. It's about showing up consistently with something real to say. It's storytelling and strategy and service all rolled into one. It's knowing who you're talking to and what they care about, and how to show up in a way that earns their trust over time. So I don't do fluff, I don't do Hollywood trends. And when I work with clients to find their actual voice, not the ones that their competitors are using, and build the content that resonates and that drives action. And it doesn't feel like marketing. And I always remind people that social is a two way street. You know, if you're if you're just broadcasting and not engaging, you're not doing social, you're you're just doing digital billboards.The power is in the comments and the replies and the conversation. That's where the brand loyalty lives. So, you know, good social media copy, what goes into that? It might look short, but there's so much that goes into it. You know, every line has a job to do. You need a hook that grabs the attention in 1 to 2 seconds, because that's all you've got.When people are scrolling, you know, you need messaging that's emotionally resonant but still aligned with your brand voice. You you need to know the goal of the post is it engagement clicks, share saves? You know every post should serve a purpose and a lot of people don't understand it's deeper. Social media's deeper than than that.ADRIANA:Yeah, that's so true. That's so true. And it it's interesting that you mentioned, too, on the you know, you need an attention grabber, because I've found like you know, like LinkedIn for example, you can post long ass posts. Right. But if that first sentence or two doesn't grab someone's attention, then it doesn't really matter what else you say afterwards, right?MANDY:No, no. And you also have to understand the algorithmic context. You know what works on LinkedIn doesn't work on Instagram and what works in a caption doesn't always work in a carousel. You know, platform fluency also matters. You know, the best copy sounds human. It mirrors how your audience actually talks. It solves a problem. It tells a story, or it says something bold enough to start a conversation. And ideally it does that in as few words as possible because no one's here for a novel on a Tuesday afternoon.ADRIANA:Oh my God, it's so, so true. Yeah. And I think also what you mentioned about like, you can't just, you know, it's it's not like, you know, just post and walk away either, like because otherwise as you said what's the point? Engaging, I think, really matters. And I think in doing so as well, the people who took the time to make comments are like, oh, they care.MANDY:Now, great copy is part psychology, part storytelling and part restraint.ADRIANA:Oh yeah. That’s so true.MANDY:You have to feel what your audience needs and then deliver it in scroll-stopping, you know, crystal clearness.ADRIANA:Yeah that's true. That's true. Yeah. I often find myself, like rereading my, my social copy because, you know, at first something might sound like it makes sense in your head, and then you're rereading it and you're like, oh, but people probably don't have the context that I have in my head, so I need to clarify. Otherwise they'll misunderstand.MANDY:Yeah.ADRIANA:And then the other one that I find, you know, like, whereas with LinkedIn, you, you have much higher character limits, then you've got the opposite with like, Bluesky, where you are so restricted. And I mean, I guess you could like, you can turn it into a thread, but I don't I don't necessarily... I try to avoid those personally because I don't necessarily find that people will go through your thread.MANDY:Yeah. No, Bluesky forces you to be concise. You've got 300 characters to make your point. You know, be funny or real or spark conversation. You know, that's not a lot of room, but honestly, it it makes you a better writer.ADRIANA:It's true, it's true. Yeah, it's definitely, it has definitely forced me to, to, to be more concise. And the other thing, I don't know how you feel about this, but like, I've, I've tried using AI to help me write copy for my social purpose, for my podcast. And I'm like, oh God. Did it ever fall flat on its face? Like, I was like, this. This doesn't even sound like me.MANDY:No, you can't have. There's no substitute for yourself. There's really not.ADRIANA:There. Yeah, I agree, and that's why, you know, I think there was even, there was a post that you did recently on LinkedIn. I think talking about, you know, like having, like a genuine, having a genuine voice and I think I, I'll try to, like, pull up the, the post for, for the show notes, but, I replied how, like, you know, this is why you can't like, you can't really you can't use AI to write blog posts. There's something like for me for like my writing when I write my blog posts, it's so, it's so colloquial, so like relaxed that there's no fucking AI in the world, I think, that could emulate that. Hey, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe someday there's going to be an AI that can emulate my writing voice, but I. I feel like this is this is what I bring, when I write and and I'm hoping that there won’t be an AI that will take that from me.MANDY:I hear you there. I hear you there. You know, blog writing, real blog writing is not just, you know, hitting about, you know, it's not just about hitting word counts or, you know, stuffing in the keywords. It's about emotional resonance. It's about voice. It's about seeing something that matters. So yeah, AI can be a tool. I use it, but it's just not a replacement for voice.ADRIANA:Yes, exactly. Like, you know, sometimes I'm I get fumbled in my words and I'm like, I'm wording this in like the stupidest way possible. So I'll like, you know, I'll ask AI, just make this sound prettier. And I'm like, okay, I can work with that. That fits in, that fits in. But yeah, I mean, to use to use like a chunk of AI to replace your voice. Just I don't, I don't feel like that has ever worked.MANDY:No. AI can give you structure where it can help you brainstorm. You know, hell, it can write a technically correct blog post, but what it can’t do, at least not well, is just write like somebody who's been through it.ADRIANA:And that's what people relate to.MANDY:It's it just it doesn't know how to tell the truth in a way that makes somebody sit back and go, “Oh, so it's not just me.”ADRIANA:Yes. And I think you you nailed it spot on. And I think this is what draws people to content... is that realization that we're in this together. You've experienced this. You know what it's like you got in my head somehow and and I think that that's what that's what forms community. And we all want to belong, somehow, somewhere. Right. And finding finding places where, where people get us, is like, just the ultimate, I, I feel like that that is the goal, right?MANDY:Right.ADRIANA:Now, I wanted to ask you as well, you know, speaking of, like, knowing knowing the social media platform, how do you find. Because this is something I, I struggle with, on Instagram, like promoting, podcast content on, on Instagram, like, for me, I think I do, my, probably my stuff does best like if I do audiograms. But like just a straight up post, you know, for my podcast is like, eeeeahhh.MANDY:Yeah.ADRIANA:Like how how do you feel like that differs from like your, your traditional you like your LinkedIns and Blueskies of the world.MANDY:So Instagram is all about visual storytelling. So for podcasting the trick is to stop treating it like an audio platform and start treating it like a narrative preview. So I ask myself, you know, what's the moment in this episode that would stop someone mid scroll? Is it a quote? Is a facial expression? Is it a spicy opinion? A mic drop moment?You know, that's the content I would lead with. Reels and carousels are gold right now. So you'd want, you know, short, punchy clips with captions burned in or, you know, a series of slides. That's what the episode's about. Without giving it all away, you know, think, value, emotion or controversy in the first three seconds, and promote it more than once. You know, people aren't seeing every post. You can repurpose the same episode five different ways across a few days, and it'll still feel fresh.ADRIANA:Yeah, that one's an interesting one though. Like re promoting the content because I like, I do find I get a little bit self-conscious about re-promoting my content. Like, you know, if I, I'll post like a link to a blog post and it didn't get like a lot of it didn't get any like, say, Bluesky would be like, nobody loves me. And, and you know, it's like, just repost it.MANDY:Yeah. I mean, re-promoting content. It's not lazy. It's smart. The internet moves fast and people miss things and algorithms are just unpredictable. And if you're only posting about something once, you're basically whispering into a void and hoping somebody catches it.ADRIANA:Yeah, that that's actually a great way of putting it. Yeah. And that's the thing is, it's basically, I guess the internet's kind of like this fast moving stream and you'll, you'll like, catch bits of it every so often and you'll miss probably most of it, unless you're one of those people who’s just like, online all day long. There's there's no possible way you can.MANDY:People need to see something multiple times to remember it, let alone take action on it. And the truth is, and nobody's paying as close attention to your feed as you are usually, unless you're that person we just mentioned. You know, what feels repetitive to you probably feels like clarity to your audience.ADRIANA:Oh yeah, that's so true. That's so true. And you know, all of this stuff underscores why it's important to have, you know, people like you out there who specialize in doing this type of work because it is, it is a full time job. It is a lot of work to like, keep that, keep that momentum going, to be mindful and thoughtful of what you're going to post, to remember, to just keep reposting, to, to right, you know, to to do the, the, the platform specific content as well. Like it's it's a lot of stuff. It's a lot of stuff. If anyone ever thought that this was fluff work, it is not. It is a lot of work. It's sometimes I think in some ways, like it's more effort to write social copy than it is to write a full fledged blog post.MANDY:You're it's true.ADRIANA:Now, you know, I wanted to. Switch gears a little bit and talk about, like, you know, like you're you're a mom. And I feel like, we don't have enough conversations about, like, working women, let alone working women in tech. How how do you approach, being like a working mom, a working mom in tech? What have you found have been like, you know, roadblocks, barriers that you've had to get past?MANDY:Yeah. So it means constantly navigating systems that weren't built for people like me. You know, tech loves to talk about innovation, but when it comes to flexibility, support or understanding real life circumstance and chaos, it's still has a really, really long way to go. I've had to build my own path sometimes with a baby on my hip, sometimes between hospital visits, like I am now. Sometimes on two hours of sleep. There's no off switch when you're a mom. But honestly, that's what's made me better at what I do. I don't waste time. I communicate clearly and I get shit done.ADRIANA:Yeah, absolutely. And that's I think that's what a lot of folks miss out on. The super power of of the mom is that you ain't got time for this shit. Let's get it done.MANDY:I've had to make peace with not being polished all the time. You know, you'll get me on zoom with a kid in the background sometimes, or, you know, you'll get boundaries, you'll get reality, but you'll also get relentless follow through and creative problem solving and loyalty that doesn't quit when things get hard. You know, I don't hide in being a mom. It's it's part of what makes me effective. And I think more, you know, companies and people in tech need to realize that the messy middle is often where the best talent lives.ADRIANA:It's so true. It's so true. And and being unafraid to like, just always showing perfection because nobody lives in perfection. And I think like we fall victim to that, like in social media. I think we fall victim to that at the workplace as well. Right? Especially when office work was a lot more prevalent. And, you know, there's like there's office persona that's like the super-put-together-on-the-outside person. And then there's like chaotic real life that that is actually behind, you know, that mask and it it's interesting. I was listening to this podcast that I really love, called, “The Happiness Lab”. And, one of the episodes that, they had on was talking about, it was on parenting, and they were talking about like, I think it was when, the one of the former surgeon generals of the US was saying that he and his wife used to never invite people over to their house because it was, like, always chaotic and messy.And then they're like, whatever, we'll just do it. And people come as you are, like, you know, whatever this, this is what it is. We just want people to come over and have a good time. And this type of action gives people permission to like, oh my God, I don't have to be perfect all the time too. Because I think we all get caught up in these, you know, like fake in the fake perfection that that's social media gives us even even, as you said, like Zoom calls sometimes it's like, oh, I like how pristine.MANDY:Now, I, I gave up on perfection a long time ago because it's not real. It's a moving target. And chasing it nearly cost me everything. You know, my health, my creativity and my peace. So I've built a career and a place out of showing up anyway, you know, whether that's messy or honest or in progress. And that's just where the real connection happens. You know, no one relates to the version of you that has it all together. They relate to the version that's trying and learning and pivoting and getting back up.ADRIANA:Yes. Yeah. And I think those are the stories that we that we need to highlight. And I think that's why it's so important also to like be so open about these things. Like on social media, you're on your LinkedIn. You've always been like very candid about this stuff. And I think it's awesome. I love it because I think you give other people permission to also share their stories because, like, it's not like we're all it's not like we're, you know, like you're you're not the only one going through the stuff everyone's got, you know, some form of struggle.And so you showing your vulnerability and I think, you know, you show your resilience as well. And having worked with you as well, like, you know, the, the stuff that you put out, put out for us for On-Call Me Maybe, was always like super top notch. I mean, this is what I aspire to. You're my benchmark. Whenever I do stuff for this podcast, I'm like, what would Mandy have done?And this is what, you know, what I try to follow, in the capacity that I can, when, when I do my podcast. So I, I do thank you for, you know, being vulnerable, in public on social media because I think we we need that. I'm so over like the stuffiness of of the corporate world.Like, been there, done that. We we just need more. We need more candor that, you know, like the candor that you bring. So thank you.MANDY:Thank you. That whole mindset of not chasing perfection is exactly why I created my own blog, and I. I put it out there and I put it on LinkedIn to my professional following. You know, I spent so many years trying to hold it all together to be the perfect mom, to be the perfect employee, to be the perfect version of myself.And it damn near broke me. So I started writing. Not to perform, but to process and to tell the truth about recovery and trauma and motherhood. Career pivot. All of it. You know, I wanted a place where people like me, people who have suffered, survive things that don't fit into tidy Instagram captions could feel seen. So yeah, that's why.ADRIANA:Yeah. That's great. That's great. And I think, you know, you mentioning stuff like career pivots. Another important thing to keep in mind these days because, like, it's funny, I've had this conversation with, my daughter, she's in 11th grade, and they get them thinking about, like, university early on, like she took a careers course in 10th grade, and they're like, oh, you have to plan like the courses you're taking in high school and, like.And she was getting overwhelmed. She's like, they're making me choose what I want to do. Like. And I don't even fully understand what that is. Right? Back in 10th grade. And I'm like, Hannah, the greatest thing that you have at your disposal is the ability to change your mind, because if it ain't working out for you, you can switch out of it.MANDY:Absolutely.ADRIANA:And I think, you know, that's and I think, you know, when once we get into the workforce, we experience it firsthand. I mean, my career's pivoted so many times in the last 24 years, like, it’s wild.MANDY:I still don’t know what I want to do, I, I don't know. And I, a part of me loves it, but a part of me hates it at the same time. So we'll see!ADRIANA:Yeah. Yeah. And, and you've got at your disposal the ability to pivot to something else.MANDY:You have the ability to change in, you know, you wake up and it's a brand new day and you can be whatever you want to be on any given day.ADRIANA:Exactly. I love that so much. Now we are coming up on time. But before we, part ways, do you have any, I mean, you've had so many lovely words of wisdom. I'm going to have a hard time picking out the audiograms for this episode. But do you have any parting words of wisdom or hot takes or anything you want to, share his final words with our audience?MANDY:Parting words of wisdom. If I have to leave you with anything, you know it's. I guess this. It's. Stop waiting to feel ready. You know, ready is a myth. Clarity comes after action, not before. So say yes to the things that scare you. You know, start messy. Hit publish. Even if your voice shakes you don't need to be perfect. You just need to be real. You know? That's what people connect with. That's what changes things. So whether you're building a brand or healing something big or, you know, trying to make it through the week, you're allowed to take up space exactly as you are. You don't have to earn your right to be here.ADRIANA:Damn. That is wow, that those are such powerful words. That's going to probably make it onto an audiogram, you know, so powerful. And what a lovely way to, to finish off the episode. So once again, thank you, Mandy, so much for Geeking Out with me today. And y'all, don't forget to subscribe. Be sure to check the show notes for additional resources and to connect with us and our guests on social media. Until next time...MANDY:Peace out. Geek out.ADRIANA:Geeking Out is hosted and produced by me, Adriana Villela. I also compose and perform the theme music on my trusty clarinet. Geeking Out is also produced by my daughter Hannah Maxwell, who, incidentally, designed all of the cool graphics. Be sure to follow us on all the socials by going to bento.me/geekingout.