Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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Hei taas, Berta. No hei taas, Lähipoksi. Mitäs tilasit verkosta tällä kertaa? No voi kuule, kengät tilasin. Arvas minkä väriset? Uskallanko veikata, että kenties punaiset? Voi kun sä oot ihanaa. Sä tunnet mut paremmin kuin mun poikaystävä. Oh, tässähän ihan punastuu. Postnord. Tuomme maailman luoksesi. Automaattiin, lähikauppaan tai naapurustosi Lähipoksiin.
Hei there, I'm Asma Khalid.
I'm Tristan Redman, and we're here with a bonus episode for you from the Global Story podcast. The world order is shifting. Old alliances are fraying and new ones are emerging. Some of this turbulence can be traced to decisions made in the United States. But the US isn't just a cause of the upheaval. Its politics are also a symptom of it. Every day we focus on one story, looking at how America and the world shape each other.
So we hope you enjoy this episode and to find more of our show, just search for The Global Story wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Before we start, this episode contains upsetting details of children's experiences in war. So please take care while listening. More than 1100 children have been killed or injured in the Middle East in the two weeks since the war in Iran started. That's according to UNICEF.
For the last four decades, Fergal Keen has been one of the most familiar voices on the BBC reporting from war zones around the world.
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Chapter 2: What insights does Fergal Keane share about the impact of war on children's brains?
And over the years, he's been profoundly affected by the stories he's heard from children in particular. Now this spring, he's saying goodbye to the BBC. So we sat down with him to talk through the issue that has stayed with him throughout his career. From the BBC, I'm Asma Khalid. And I'm Tristan Redman. And today on The Global Story, Fergal Keen on PTSD and how living through war affects children's brains.
Fergal, thank you so much for joining us. Could you introduce yourself for us, please? Yeah, I'm Fergal Keen. I've been around a long time. Feels like forever. I love that as an introduction. Doing what in all that time, Fergal? I've been a foreign correspondent, war correspondent with the BBC for 37 years. Before that I was a reporter in Belfast in Ireland for Irish TV and radio. And before that I was a newspaper reporter.
Ja millaisia tarinoita sinulla on, jotka ovat todella tarkoittaneet sinua karjaasi? Puhuin yhden ystävänni viikonloppuun, joka oli ollut minun kanssa. Ja luulen, että demokraattinen kehitys Suomessa, kun katsoin, että viiden vuoden aikana tämä maa muuttui rauhallisesta rauhallisuudesta. Ja huomioitukset, joita niin monet ihmiset, erityisesti lapset, käsittelevät.
Muutamalla siitä, kun olin Pertoriaan unionin ulkopuolella vuonna 1994 ja katsoin Nelson Mandelaa, kun olin vain 30 tai 40 metriä hänen puolestaan. Katsoin hänet, jonka kärsivät hänen kärsivänsä, käsittämällä kansalaisen demokraattisen Suomalaisen presidentin. Se on sellaista asiaa, jonka mukaan ajattelee, että en koskaan tunne sitä taas. Ja se on totta, ettei. Se on yksi elokuvan kokemus.
Aika nopeasti myöhemmin oli toinen tärkeä tarina, joka tarkoitti karjani ja itseäni. Ja se tarkoitti minun psykiatrian. Ja se oli Rwandaissa, jossa oli noin 800 000 ihmisiä, joita on toiminut 100 päivää aikana.
Ympäristöryhmien ympäristöryhmät ovat taas tullut vihollisuuteen. Tarkoituksena on kymmeniä sydäntä, kun monimuotoinen Tutsi-ryhmä ympäristöryhmät ympäristöryhmät ympäristöryhmiä.
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Chapter 3: How did Fergal Keane's childhood trauma influence his reporting?
The Hutu forces pressured Hutu civilians to use machetes, clubs, blunt objects and other weapons to rape, maim and kill their Tutsi neighbours and destroy or steal their property. And many of them killed by people who were their neighbours. You know, killed with clubs, with machetes.
And these neighbours egged on by the government, who basically taught people to entirely subvert the moral order. In other words, they told them that to kill your neighbour was the right thing to do.
It's estimated that more than a million people have been forced from their homes by a campaign of butchery that shows no sign of ending. They, over many years, had pumped propaganda into the population, told them that if they didn't kill the minority, the minority was going to kill them. That's the Tutsi minority, who were set upon by a Hutu extremist government. And I witnessed that, and I witnessed the appalling...
Se on se, että se on se, että se on se. And then meeting the genocidaire, the people who'd carried out the killing, from ordinary peasant farmers on roadblocks, listening to their rationalizations, to the men who had planned it and given the orders. You don't shift something like that from your consciousness.
Haluaisimme todella puhua sinulle tänään, koska olet kirjoittanut tämän mielenkiintoisen artiklan BBC-sivustolle, jossa puhutaan siitä, miten elämys konflikteissa vaikuttaa lapsille. Lopulta ja koko elämän aikana. Miksi päätit kirjoittaa tämän tarinan nyt?
I've been sort of covering the conflict in Gaza since the Hamas attack on October the 7th. And it became clear to me that all of the trauma that I had witnessed being inflicted on children in the previous more than three decades of reporting as a BBC war correspondent, I was seeing it again day after day.
12-vuotias Leanne Khalaf löytää ystävyyttä hänen perheensä, kun pommi alkaa. Minun isäni kutsuu isäni ja isäni hakemaan heidät, sanoo hän. Ja me pysymme toisiamme kädessä. Ja se muistaa minua reflektoimaan...
missä olemme nyt, kun puhutaan sellaista lainsäädäntöä, joka pyrkii suojamaan lapsia, sellaista huolta, joka pitäisi olla heille tarjolla, ja seuraavaksi seuraavaksi seuraavaksi seuraavaksi seuraavaksi seuraavaksi seuraavaksi seuraavaksi seuraavaksi seuraavaksi
where you had children suffering because of Israeli blockades, which made drastic limits on food, which put severe limits on medical care. The destruction of so much of the healthcare system in Israeli attacks. The Israelis say that's because Hamas are hiding in hospitals. But whatever the consequence of these has been,
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Chapter 4: What are the challenges faced by children living in conflict zones today?
In a world of insecurity and ambition and ego, it's easy to be drawn in, to take chances with our lives, to believe that what we do and what people say about us is reason enough to gamble with death. Now, looking at your sleeping face, inches away from me, listening to your occasional sigh and gurgle, I wonder how I could ever have thought glory and prizes and praise were sweeter than life. And it's also true that I am pained, perhaps haunted is a better word,
by the memory, suddenly so vivid now, of each suffering child I have come across on my journeys. To tell you the truth, it's nearly too much to bear at this moment, to even think of children being hurt and abused and killed. And yet looking at you, the images come flooding back. I wonder if you could talk us through how did this essay come about and why was it so important for you to write about it? I wish I could claim the credit for having the idea, but it wasn't my idea. Whose was it?
It was Tony Grant, a man called Tony Grant, who was the editor of From Our Own Correspondent, this wonderful program on the BBC, which is heard all around the world. It's one of our oldest programs. And it does a very simple thing. It says to the correspondent,
kirjoita sitä, mitä olet kokeillut. Ja erittäin yleensä, joskus sitä, mitä olet tuntenut. Meillä ei kuitenkaan esitellytä omaa tunteemme päiväkirjoituksessa. Se ei ole se, mitä olemme olleet olleet olleet olleet olleet olleet olleet olleet olleet olleet olleet olleet olleet olleet olleet olleet olleet olleet olleet olleet olleet
With the kid sitting in one arm and typing with the other hand. And I was absolutely blown away by the beauty of this child. I was just overwhelmed at what he represented, at the possibility of new beginnings. And it brought up memories of the children that I had seen, so many of them, who didn't enjoy the protection.
that my child had in my arms in a nice comfortable apartment in Hong Kong, looking out at the dawn, knowing that his future was going to be one surrounded by love, care and security. And so writing it got really, I was very, very churned up because it brought together so many different strands of my experience as a war correspondent over the previous decades.
Fröggl, sinä kirjoitit sinun sydäntäsi alkuperäisessä 1990-luvussa. Se oli saman ajan ajan, kun kirjoitit Rwandan genosiidin. Se on ollut suuri keskustelu sinun kirjoittamisiin vuosien aikana. Kun olit siellä alueella, sinulla oli 13-vuotias nainen nimeltään Valentina, joka olisi menossa koko perheensä. Ylipäätään Jarabujeissa tilaajat olivat lopettaneet työtään.
Kaksi päivää sitten he jäivät, uskovaan, että he olisivat tappaneet kaikkia niitä tuutteita. Mutta lopulta tästä rannasta, ympäri kirkkoa, huonosti, mutta edelleen huumaamassa, Valentina jäi ylöspäin. Viikkoja ja iloja hän jäi edelleen, kuulemassa kaikkia ääniä. Pidin siellä jonkin aikaa, yli kuukauden. Kun yritin aloittaa, menisin.
Ajattelin, että jos taitajat tulisivat, itse tuntuisin olevani syvällä.
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Chapter 5: How does PTSD affect journalists covering war zones?
The big lesson is that given a chance, the human spirit, and especially children, are phenomenally resilient. I don't believe that anybody is doomed by what happened to them in their childhood.
Meconomen tekee autosi huollosta huoletonta. Meillä käytetään aina alkuperäisiä tai vastaavanlaatuisia varausia. Seuraamalla autonvalmistajien suosituksia varmistamme, että uuden autosi takuu säilyy. Kun haluat huolehtia autostasi parhaalla mahdollisella tavalla, käy osoitteessa meconomen.fi.
Tuli kuuran kukkia, keväthankia tai kihlajaiskekkereitä. Löydät nyt yli tuhat pysyvästi edullista tuotetta K-ruokakaupoista. Ja mitäs me laitetaan sulle tähän? Oi vitsi, mitäköhän mä ottaisin? Nää on kaikki niin hyvännäköisiä. Valitse muutakin kuin nopeutta. Elisan yritysliittymien kätevillä lisäpalveluilla yrittäjän arki on sujuvampaa ja turvallisempaa. Elisa.fi kautta yritysliittymät.
Kerää pisteet kotiin. Uudistunut IKEA Family on avain etuihin. Saat pisteitä muun muassa jokaisesta yli viiden euron ostoksesta. Ja voit kirjaimellisesti käyttää pisteet kotiin. Kylläpä kilisee. Tutustu nyt ja aloita pisteiden kerääminen. IKEA. Kotona käy kaikki.
Fogel, sinä itse olit myöhemmin diagnoostunut PTSD-päällikkönä. Miten ja kun aloitit tunnistamaan, että olit myös vaikuttanut konfliktien kohdalla? Jos olen varma sinulle, niin mielestäni olin PTSD-päällikkönä very early age as a consequence of the environment in which I grew up.
Ja paradoksaalisesti se, mitä se teki, oli luoda minulle tarve olla paikoissa, joissa se tunne odotusta, se tanssi, oli muodostunut. Koska olin täydellisesti suunniteltu, jotta voin toimia sotilaallisuudessa. Olin hypervigilaattinen.
From the very earliest age, obviously watching out, you know, am I under threat? Is there a danger to me here? And that makes you very skilled at navigating a place like Rwanda or the streets of Belfast in the middle of rioting. When I came out of Rwanda in 1994, nobody was talking about journalists and PTSD. We went and we got drunk and talked about it in the bar and that was it.
And I self-medicated with alcohol and, you know, ended up as a fully functioning alcoholic. Because that is, you know, such a common coping mechanism. Anything to take you away from the pain, anything to take you away from that void, which is full of nightmares and bad memories. I kept running and I kept running into conflict zones until I had...
A pretty big breakdown in about 2008. I went into hospital and was formally diagnosed with complex post-traumatic stress disorder as a result of numerous wartime experiences. But you know what? I came out. And I was a good boy for a while. I didn't go to the war zones. And then I went back. I mean, that is the definition of insanity.
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Chapter 6: What advancements have been made in treating childhood trauma from war?
Really at the deepest low possible and feeling shame because of what I brought on my family. Trauma, PTSD doesn't affect just one person. Addiction doesn't affect just one person. It affects all of those who love you, who live in fear about what is going to happen to you.
I was watching a TV program, as you do, in the dark hours of the night, when you can't go to sleep. And there was an American psychiatrist on it. And he sat down, he was talking to a celebrity. And he said, number one, he said, life is full of pain. Number two, it's full of uncertainty. And number three, that if you're going to have decent mental health, you've got to work at it every single day of your life.
Ja se oli se asia, josta tuli huomioon, että voin saada koko maailman autta vanhemmille, mutta minun täytyi todennäköisesti ottaa toimia itselleni. Ja mitä se vaikuttaa? Se vaikuttaa jatkuvasti terapiaan, pysyvän vallan ulkopuolella, ja se vaikuttaa ympäristöstäni niin paljon rakkaudesta kuin voin löytää. Ja tämä menee takaisin siihen, mitä puhuimme lasten kanssa. Se on juuri niin tärkeää vanhemmille.
To be around people who love you and to give that love back.
You've talked about how difficult it was to stop going back to conflict zones because of its almost kind of compulsive nature of that kind of work. There are so many wars and conflicts happening in the world right now. Places where children don't have the choice of whether they can be there or not. They are there. Gaza, Ukraine, Sudan. What is the scale of the crisis for children around the world right now, Fogel?
Well, the most recent figure we have is from 2024 and that talks about 520 million children living in conflict zones.
520 miljoonaa lapsia, 520 miljoonaa lapsia on nyt elämässä konfliktizoonissa. Se on noin yksi kaikkein viisi lapsia maailmassa. Se on yksi kaikkein viisi lapsia maailmassa. Se on yksi kaikkein viisi lapsia maailmassa.
Has the knowledge of how to deal with children in war zones improved? I know you've been talking to experts about how to help children, children who might be suffering from PTSD. These numbers are huge. Has the knowledge base changed?
Yes, the knowledge base has absolutely changed. Remarkable work being done. So, for example, you have doctors who have worked with children who went through the Bosnian civil war and the genocide at Srebrenica.
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Chapter 7: What does Fergal Keane believe about the resilience of children in conflict?
I can't speak to any children in Iran at the moment, but I have been able to speak to a young woman who said a phrase to me via an intermediary, which just has been going around in my head for the last few days. And she said, this war, she said, it has come into our homes, it has come into our families, it has come into our blood. And I don't know when we're going to be able to get rid of it. And she was talking about the fear that
I've just seen some footage which was sent out to us of the night sky and the sound of bombing and this really eerie sound of dogs barking when they hear the aircraft approaching. And you're thinking to yourself, what's it like to be...
an adult under it, but to be a child. And who hasn't... Yes, there have been, there were airstrikes, there were attacks on the nuclear installations in an earlier phase of this conflict between Israel, America and Iran. But this kind of bombing in cities is something the vast majority of Iranian children will have had no experience of. And I think it goes back to the entire thread of our conversation. When wars begin, no matter where they are...
Ja he ovat ne, joilla on vähemmän mahdollisuutta vahvistaa itseään. Ja he ovat ne, joilla on vähemmän mahdollisuutta vahvistaa itseään. Ja he ovat ne, joilla on vähemmän mahdollisuutta vahvistaa itseään.
Well, Fergal, thank you for bringing your insights and all of your years of reporting to us. Really appreciate it. Thank you. That was Fergal Keen, who sadly is leaving the BBC this spring after 37 years. And we want to thank Fergal for the incredible sensitive reporting he's done over all those decades. And we wish him the best of luck for what's next. We do indeed.
Today's episode was produced by Hannah Moore. It was edited by Bridget Harney and mixed by Travis Evans. Our senior news editor is Chyna Collins. And I'm Asma Khalid. And I'm Tristan Redman. Thank you very much for listening and we'll see you again tomorrow. Maistuvia tarjouksia arkeen ja juhlaan. K-Marketista. Oman kilan kauppasta.
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