Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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The minute you see a friend going, oh, I'm not coping, everybody else goes, neither am I, let's have a huddle.
Group hug.
Group hug. The one thing I got all through my childhood was imagine what you could have done if you'd done some work, you know? And I had to go back and rewrite all of it.
You're not having sex anymore to make babies, which means you're a certain age in your life, which means your lack of fertility is a source of shame, which means that your body is a source of shame, which means that your dry vagina is a source of shame, which means that everything ageing in you is a source of shame.
So why on earth would you want to rip your clothes off and throw yourself at anybody? Because you're really fighting so much shame.
Nau mai, haere mai to grey areas with me, Petra Baggist. Today I catch up with the indomitable Robin Malcolm, queen of stage and screen, who I first sat down with for season one of Grey Areas early in 2022. Back then, we were both in the thick of perimenopause. And look, since 2022, she has been busy. She's co-directed, executive produced and starred in BAFTA-nominated series After the Party.
She's worked in heaps of drama series and movies like Pike River. and a couple of documentaries, including a new one coming out this year on menopause. She's also fallen in love as happily in her 60s and an absolute firecracker of a human being. Here's Robin.
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Chapter 2: What insights does Robyn Malcolm share about turning 60?
And I used to look at the young, beautiful actresses and think, oh, wouldn't it be lovely to be one of those, you know. But I think in a way I was quite lucky because that never was a thing. So I don't see it as a thing now. And so whatever a character looks like is kind of – I have no interest in it really, because it's about the authenticity of the character.
And that comes from early stage work, I think. Whereas I think, I met Rachel Ward at the Actor Awards a few months ago. And she'd just done that. Did you see that amazing response that she did to, it was on Instagram. She'd been at some public event and she hadn't been out there for a while. And she's cut her hair short and she just looks incredible, you know, but she looks her age.
And the amount of hate and criticism, just this weird attack that she got for not still looking like her 23-year-old self was... It was, I don't want to give it too much weight, it was just moronic. It was utterly moronic. And she came back out and she did this little post on Instagram and I'm going to misquote her, but the sense of it was, look, I'm really sorry I shocked you.
I haven't been around for a while. People do get older and this is me and you did respond well. quite violently to how I looked. And I'm sorry that you felt that, but I don't give a fuck. It was just so great. It was so great.
And I went up to her and I went, I just have to say, I just, I just admire you so much because of, cause she, she was one of those real beauties as a young juvenile lead actress. And the fact that she was able to turn her back entirely on that and own where she is now. I mean, it should be a natural journey. It shouldn't even be something that we have to battle to do.
But I just thought her journey was so courageous because of how awful people were to her because she wasn't that creature. And I guess the point I'm making is that I don't think I ever was. So I don't think I should. You know?
Well, I think there's always been a grit about you, a raw reality where you're like, this is me, so like it or lump it. But really interesting that you used the word creature there. I never was that creature.
Because there's something unearthly about where we put some stars, whether they're singers or actors or artists, they become like this otherworldly object and we require them almost not to be human. And I'm very interested in being human. It feels like the only option to me that's sustainable.
You're absolutely right. And I think at the moment it's very odd. But those creatures are like, it's like they seem to go into that world quite willingly. Like there's a buy-in. And particularly at the moment, was it the BAFTAs?
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Chapter 3: How does Robyn view aging in an industry focused on youth?
And you watch these, I mean, I go back to these girls on the red carpet and it's like, it always feels a little bit like you're looking at people going, Winner, winner, chicken dinner, you know. I just feel so much better than everybody else. And you know they don't.
Yeah, yeah.
And so I feel at the moment it's really important to push back against all of that. as much as I can, you know? And I think it's getting better. There's a lot more talk now amongst actresses my age, at least, about this. And there's, particularly over here in the UK, I really feel that.
And I wonder whether it's because there's such a big theatre community here as well, and it's never impacted in the theatre the same way it has on screen.
And there has to just be choice. You're never going to have everybody doing the same thing. Some people are always going to strive for something else, and that's okay. But I think that women have to have options. We have to have choices and be like, what pen will I pick up and what will I write? What's my next chapter?
And I want women to pick up a pen and go, oh, this is a really exciting chapter. Yeah. where I get to show up as myself and be brave and courageous and, you know, fight off some of my demons, learn new things, take risks. I've already fallen over, like you say, so I know how to get up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I might be a wee bit more creaky when I get up. Yeah, maybe. Ow. I mean, I feel like actually life's kind of got, I mean, life's pretty awful for a lot of people at the moment, like really, really, really awful. So you have to be pretty fucking grateful of where you're at, you know.
Having said all of that, I find life funnier than it used to be, just because I'm not taking it quite as seriously, and in particular not taking myself quite as seriously as I used to.
Okay, how's that for a life hack? Becoming more amused with yourself and the wonderful wacky world around you. For me, that sounds like not crucialising every little thing and it feels like relief. Coming up, we talk about the tendency for women to blame themselves when things go wrong. Hmm, I can see a pattern here.
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Chapter 4: What does Robyn say about the representation of women on screen?
When you look back at your own life, are you able to offer compassion to all those times in your life when you really nailed yourself for not being good enough or whatever? And also decisions that you may have made in your life that you now regret.
And that was really interesting because one of the great discoveries getting older too is to be able to look back on your life that is full of mistakes and wrong turns and all the rest of it and go, well, I'm really happy with where I am now. So I can't regret any of it. because it's got me here and I would rather be here than anywhere else.
And I was able to go back through the ADHD lens and go, actually, all those mistakes I may have made or corners that I turned because of this particular brain Sometimes they may have been risky, you know, but I actually don't regret any of them because of where it's got me to. And somebody else might look at my life and go, oh, I wouldn't want her life, you know, but fine.
I'm really happy with where I am. So all of that. And I was able just to look at all of it and go, I don't regret it. It's just part of a life's journey. And thank God. And, you know, honestly, thank God for you, Petra, because it was that... I must have been... There must have been a bit in my brain that was leading me there because I was listening to that podcast particularly. I looked it up.
And as you were talking, it just... Oh, it changed everything for me. And I look back at that now and I go, it was meant to. Yeah. It was meant to, you know. And the way you spoke about it so openly and honestly and with enormous vulnerability as well was so moving. But you let me go, oh, same, shit, same, same. It was an absolute game changer for me. Thanks.
That's so lovely to hear. Thank you.
It's absolutely true. I don't think I would have gone near a diagnosis had I not heard that interview.
Yeah, well.
And I don't think I would be feeling quite as good about everything had I not done that, you know. Yeah.
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