Episode 2 - “Through the Valley”
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Who are the hosts and what is the episode about?
Welcome back to the official podcast for the HBO original series, The Last of Us. I'm Troy Baker, and I play Joel in The Last of Us video games. Joining me as always are the showrunners of the HBO series, Craig Mazin. Good to see you. And Neil Druckmann. Hi, Troy. Today, we are unpacking episode two of the second season. And listeners, here is your warning. You will want to have watched this episode in its entirety before you hear this conversation. Trust me, there are many, many spoilers ahead. This episode called Through the Valley was written by Hugh Craig and it was directed by Mark Mylod. A lot happens in this episode.
Yeah.
including what would be one of the most controversial and biggest bombshells of the series, the death of a beloved character, Joel. Wait, what? It's a shock. People who have played the game, they've been bracing for this. They've been one step ahead of a lot of people who haven't been familiar with this story. Let's just dive straight into that.
Why was Joel's death a controversial moment and how was it handled?
Well, they've been one step ahead in that they understood it was going to happen. I don't think that anyone knew exactly when it would happen.
Although some people doubted it.
That it would happen at all.
We did see some people say, oh, Pedro's too popular. HBO will not let them.
Yeah, HBO, the place that made Game of Thrones when Ned Stark gets his head lopped off. I'm still reeling from that. I mean, first of all, let's just all take a big deep breath because that was a lot. The episode is a lot. There is... this massive attack on Jackson, people's lives are in danger. It is absolute mayhem. And also, there is this brutal moment that ends with Bella both terrifying you and breaking your heart at the same time. And I think it's fair to say that a lot of people, having seen the episode, are a bit shaken, and reasonably so. It is a big thing we've asked the audience to swallow. It is going to upset a lot of people, and that's okay. And they may be angry about it, and they may be confused about it, and they may be miserable about it, but I'm hoping that for the majority of them, they are going to reconnect now with who's left behind and what happens now. Because what happens now is one unstoppable force meeting another.
Do you feel like there is this unspoken expectation now from the audience you have to set the bar of catastrophe and tragedy so high that you have to continually chase that? Was that what compelled you to follow through with this act that obviously happened in the game, but to do it as early as you did to not change the timeline? What brought you to making this decision?
Well, the easy part was the source material was correct. I remember playing it and experiencing it and feeling horrible. But there is that difference between experiencing something and feeling horrible because you loved somebody and you're grieving for the loss of that person. And you're shocked that the story would be so dangerous as to kill that person. And a different response, which is a critical, I don't think that was a good choice. I thought it was a brilliant choice. I thought it was incredibly brave. And I thought it was really smart. Because in the end, you have to take plot armor away at some point. And if you're going to tell a story about consequences, and if you're going to tell a story about a man who does a terrible, terrible thing for the best possible reason there is... then you need the world to provide feedback. And the feedback here is brutality. That's how the world works. So there was never a question that we were going to do this. The real question was when.
How did the creators decide when and how to include Joel’s fate in the show?
And we talked about this a lot. And it felt to us like episode one really taught us a lot about where Joel was and what his relationship was like with Ellie. And it doesn't end well. And here we get to episode two and this happens and you feel this double destruction because as far as we know, her relationship with Joel was broken and now she's forced to watch him die.
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Chapters
6 chapters
1
Who are the hosts and what is the episode about?
0:31–1:37
2
Why was Joel's death a controversial moment and how was it handled?
1:37–4:26
3
How did the creators decide when and how to include Joel’s fate in the show?
4:26–11:11
4
What is the significance of Abby’s dream sequence and her grief?
11:11–20:04
5
How does the show explore moral ambiguity through Joel and Abby’s characters?
20:04–28:35
6
What are the challenges of adapting the game’s pivotal scenes for television?
28:35–43:20