Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
Hello and welcome to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show who will help me try to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show.
Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Leave us a one minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. All right, let's get to it. Joining me this week is Susan Griffin-Black, founder of the personal care brand EO Products. Susan, welcome back to the show.
Thank you so much for having me. So good to see you, Guy.
It is great to see you. We're first on the show back in 2019. You came on to tell us the origin story of EO products and how you grew it from a 10-gallon pot in a garage into a major natural personal care brand. And we will put a link to that episode, of course, as we always do, in the show notes. You should go check it out.
It's really – especially if you're interested not just in skincare products but in learning how to take a brand from basically a farmer's market to a massive national brand. This is the story that you got to listen to. Susan, I know that, you know, today you're focused on leading EO products and continue to grow the brand.
Can you kind of tell us a little bit about what, you know, we left off in 2019? We've, of course, kept in touch. You kept in touch with our team. But for people who don't really know what's going on with EO, tell us a little bit about where you guys are today.
Well, when we spoke in 2019, we had a pretty clear growth plan and strategy. And then, surprise, COVID. I was on my way to our annual Natural Products Expo trade show in Anaheim. And As I was driving there, the trade show was canceled. And my sister called me, whose partner is an ER doc, and said, everybody's got to come home now. And I remember it was like a Friday night.
I woke up Saturday morning. We had a little retail store in downtown Mill Valley. And people were lined up around the block because they wanted hand sanitizer.
I mean, from what I understand, I mean, you saw like a 10x surge, right, in hand sanitizer demand during COVID. And thank you for sending some, too.
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Chapter 2: What advice does Susan Griffin-Black offer for distribution channels?
You did. That was so nice. But, of course, as the demand fell, you know, you saw like a 50% drop in sales. And this was, of course, a challenge, probably one of the most challenging things you had to deal with.
It really was. Because we'd been around for 25 years, I think people cut us as much slack as they could and we worked together. It was very relationship-based. A packaging company that we did maybe $30,000 worth of business prior to COVID. We were on the hook for $2 million. Wow.
And I had to link in with the CEO and just explain our story and see if he would give us a promissory note for the next two years and work our way out of that, which they did. But it was that and dealing with the problem of just... Three times as much, five times as much inventory as we should have. And then also layoffs for the first time, you know, that was— In your entire history.
Major, yeah.
Yeah. I often come back to your episode because it really—and we've had versions of this on the show now, but it's so remarkable, and for people who haven't heard it, is that you started this company with your then-husband, Brad. Mm-hmm.
You divorced in the middle of building this company, and the two of you decided to stay running the business despite being divorced and despite going on and having new relationships. And it's a remarkable story because you together said, this is the best thing for the company. We're going to scale it together.
I remember when I interviewed you just thinking, what an adult decision, like what a smart – But smart decision that you and Brad made, you know, because often you've got partner founder partners breakups that they're not married. They're just they just are falling out. And what you guys managed to do was just incredibly hard, but smart decision.
I think it was smart, and it was good for the business and good for our family and good for our children. And, you know, when you're a founder, entrepreneur, your business is kind of like another kid in some ways, right? Yeah. It was really the highest good in this situation. And I also want to say for the record, you know, there were no other people involved and there was not like a betrayal.
So I have to say that out loud because I've had this conversation over the years so many times. And, you know, people ask us all the time and we've been divorced for longer than we were married, you know, and we're family, you know, that's just how we are.
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Chapter 3: How did COVID-19 impact EO Products' business strategy?
I'm a professor at Northwestern and Lurie Children's, and I lead a research lab that studies eczema and food allergies.
Wow. So I'm assuming that's how... Yeah, tell me how this idea came about.
Well, it's very personal. And as fate would have it, our daughter was born with severe eczema and cradle cap. And I found myself using steroids and all these chemical-filled products on her. So she became the inspiration for our research. We got a team of dermatologists, microbiologists together. And we finally developed this formula that cleared her skin.
Then it worked for so many of our patients. And then we thought we really need to share this with the world.
Yeah, because I mean, I think a lot of people listening have, you know, a little eczema on a bit of skin. And my way of dealing with it, if I can avoid scratching it, is to just not touch it. And then it just goes away. You know, sometimes it could take a week or two or more. But that's not ideal.
Yeah. So people talk about the microbiome and we think about it in the gut, right? A lot of people are taking probiotics, but we don't think about it on the skin. And our skin contains, you know, billions of bacteria, fungi, viruses, and they all live in this harmony.
Well, when this harmony gets disrupted, that's when your skin breaks down and you get that irritation, itching, and breakdown of the skin barrier. And so instead of you like having this urge to itch and just avoiding it, you know, being able to put something on that skin that helps rebalance it and support that barrier, hopefully your itch will go away way faster.
And so you decide to start a skincare line. Tell me how, where you sell it and a little bit about how you can get it and how you're doing, how the business is doing.
Sure. So we have five products. We have a scalp mask, a shampoo, conditioner, skin cream, and body oil. And we're currently selling on our website, yobicare.com. And then we also sell on Amazon. And we are starting to sell in more like businesses like spas, salons, Physicians offices, many spas.
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Chapter 4: What challenges did Susan face in managing relationships during the pandemic?
It's not just... And so I think that you really, you know, while you continue D to C, you really want to see if you can get this into the hands of dermatologists and pediatricians and medispas and, you know, salons, because. And it's about discoverability. And I would start in your area, like you're in Chicago, the Chicago area.
I would really focus building it out there first because to build it out city by city is going to be more expensive. You got to get a team to do that. But I think that's really where the... right now where you should put your energy.
Okay. Now this is really helpful. And that's, we were thinking about that. Let's start Chicago. Let's call every salon, every spa, every muddy spa, every head spa, all these cool things that are, are starting to become popular. And then I'm trying to do, yeah, I've heard all your, not all probably, but most of your episodes and, you know, your advice on, you know, getting yourself out there.
So I'm trying to educate on social media and I want to, you know, give sound information on eczema, on skin, but on any health topics, you know, to really, I think that's my space, like you said. So I appreciate it.
Yeah. I mean, it's so authentic, you know, and I also really like what you said, Guy, about local, you know, we got all crazy in the beginning and we'd be running, you know, you know, if you just get grounded, kind of where you are, who you know in the community, and take like, you know, 150 mile radius to start. And then it sort of ripples from there.
Maybe, you know, Merz Apothecary near you, you know, Zita Merz in New York, Air One, you know, very high end, personal, been around a long time, still really care about serving their customers in that particular way. And a lot of testimony and a lot of like really good people will show up on that path.
I totally agree. I mean, this is a huge market, right? I mean, eczema, any kind of skin issues, like probably it's a huge number of people. And I think once people discover it, you also want to make it really easy for them to reorder. Are you using QR codes yet at all?
Yes. Oh, yeah. Great.
You've got an email list. Are you sending reminders to people every couple of weeks or, you know, hey, time to reorder or anything like that?
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Chapter 5: How did Ruchi from Chicago seek advice for her probiotic skincare line?
I've worked with several Michelin restaurants, Michelin star restaurants here in the Bay Area and around California, and they're selling the wine. My California distribution channel has an 80% reorder rate.
80%? Yeah. And that's wholesale? Yes. Okay, so is that 80% of your entire business is wholesale?
70% of my business is coming from the California direct channel, and 80% of that reorders.
Okay.
Okay.
And what percentage of your business is direct through your website? So only 15%. Okay. Basically, the way that I've used that channel to date is all the wholesale work that I'm doing kind of funnels people into realizing I even exist. I haven't spent any money on digital advertising. I do have a pretty robust social media presence like through Instagram, and I keep wanting to try to build that.
but it's been entirely organic. So there's a lot of opportunity there, but I've really just let all the work I'm doing wholesale kind of feed into the DTC side.
And what's the tariff situation for you right now?
So definitely a huge headwind. 2025, it was 30%. So it was the highest of all major wine producing nations. It's now reduced to 10%. But now we have the fun of a weakening dollar and rising fuel costs. So that's basically brought us back to square one. And I think that the real challenge with South African wine within that is there's not as much price elasticity.
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