I Catch Killers with Gary Jubelin
Escaping the sovereign citizen movement: Brodie Finegan Forbes Pt. 2
27 Apr 2026
Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.
Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
The public has had a long held fascination with detectives. Detectives see a side of life the average person is never exposed to. I spent 34 years as a cop. For 25 of those years I was catching killers. That's what I did for a living. I was a homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead, I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.
The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some of the content and language might be confronting. That's because no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged. Join me now as I take you into this world.
In part two of my chat with former sovereign citizen, poet, writer and a unique person, Brodie Finnegan Forbes, we dissect the sovereign citizen ideology. We point out the failings and dangers of the movement and we also bring in a bit of poetry, which is a first for I Catch Killers. And as far as I know, the first time it's been on a true crime podcast.
I learn a lot about the sovereign citizen movement from Brodie and I think you will too. Have a listen. Brady, welcome back to part two of I Catch Killers. Thank you, Gary. We left you in part one and you were fully committed to the sovereign citizenship ideology at that stage. But things turned around. One of the quotes in the book that you wrote, and I'll just read it out.
This is a hallmark of a sovereign citizen ideology. Tendency to misinterpret law and legislation is a hallmark of sovereign citizenship ideology. The misinterpretations create fear, spread misinformation, and give rise to conspiracy theories and pseudo-legal concepts which self-proclaimed gurus exploit for profit.
What we've talked about, and I followed you the whole way through, you lost me on a couple of things in part one, but in essence, that's what sovereign citizenship ideology is all about.
Yes, yes. It enables people to attribute to malice what can easily be explained by just simple incompetence. You also see a lot of coarse selling. Coarse selling, you know, that happens in the manosphere and all, and like in forex trading and all these sort of things where People sell a course because apparently they've made a million dollar business.
But when you go looking for the million dollar business, it doesn't actually exist. The purpose of the course is to sell the course. That same thing pops up in the sovereign citizen world.
Now, you had a task during the break, and this will be a first for iCatchKillers, and we've been doing it for a long time. But you kindly offered to prepare a poem for your appearance on iCatchKillers. Are you prepared to read that poem out?
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Chapter 2: What led Brodie Finegan Forbes to question the sovereign citizen movement?
My poetry is... For me, it's an exploration of everything. Life, myself, my emotions, critiques of society. But it is raw. It hurts. It costs something for me to write. It allows me to feel deeper than I've felt doing anything else, really.
Well, what I saw of it, and I'm by no means an expert, but you're exposed when you're reading out poetry or reciting poetry. And you can feel that there's a vulnerability to the person that's standing there reading out there or reciting their poetry.
Yes. I think that poetry is my own bias, but I think that poetry needs to be authentic. And authenticity is not pretty all the time. It can be very ugly. It can be hateful. It can be disgusting. It can be so sad. But that's what gives it bite. That's what gives it light. That's the power of it.
Yeah. Yeah. Lose an impression. as sovereign citizens do. So let's get back into it. Now, we left you in part one. Life was going good. You were giving the cops hell, even when that pulled you over. Giving them hell, son. Giving them hell, and you come out on top, and you've won again.
But it got to the point, and we touched on the compound and the dynamics in the compound, and even in that, yeah, where there's equity for everyone, there tends to be the dominant alpha male, as you described. It got to the point that you felt that the very system that you were pushing against, you needed the system to help you.
Yes.
What happened there?
So it got to mid-October. I was now, for a couple of months, I was at the ā sharp end of the abuse. I was, I was copying it quite a bit from not just the alpha male, but from a lot of other people as well. Like, cause there was very political for, for, for, for, for a movement that, you know, espouses we're all free and, you know, loving and caring. Okay.
This is where I, this is where I wanted to get you. You're starting to see the irony of some of the concepts.
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Chapter 3: How did Brodie experience abuse within the sovereign citizen community?
I have a tattoo on my face just here which represents suicide. I myself attempted, tried to suicide when I was young. It was also as well so I could build my social skills. I sometimes wonder if I'm a bit autistic. I don't know.
I'm not going to make a diagnosis here.
Thank you. I want to learn how to connect with people and I felt like The one thing that Lifeline teaches is connection more than solutions. You don't. I don't. I know from doing the training that we don't have the solution. No matter what I might think would be your way out, I don't know. Because the reality is I don't know your full story from a 15-minute phone call. You do.
And I just need to be there and to guide you through a way for you to reach your own conclusion. for you to get yourself to where you want to be. And people know, they know what they need to do. It's just sometimes it's hard. And like, I get that. This journey of accountability that I've been on has probably been one of the hardest things I've done just because of the vulnerability of it.
Like I am now in a position where I, it's scrutinized. It's a lot of things, but I think it's important to allow accountability to become a real mainstream topic in all aspects because you can apply accountability to the relationships, to your job, to anything. The energy that you put out is what you're going to get back. You reap what you sow kind of thing.
So dealing with people who are on the edge has taught me that it's not about punishment. It's not about judging them. It's about being there and allowing them to be who they are and then
welcoming them when they're ready and if you're tying that to accountability letting them work through it to the point where they understand well there's one person that can fix it that's exactly it comes in many forms sometimes like sometimes it's they need practical help and then you can give them like references and stuff like that but but uh ultimately they decide what the solution is for them and that's important i've seen it in uh
Uh, security work as well. I, uh, I worked as a covert loss prevention officer. Uh, this was after I cut out. So for instance, I went from, uh, working against the man to being, you wouldn't be popular in your old circles.
No, not at all. Um, sorry. I'm just having, having a look with a covert security dress with your, uh, with your tattoos.
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Chapter 4: What was Brodie's escape plan from the sovereign citizen movement?
This is how we do this. And I think we have become more aware of it. And Desi Freeman was one example. There's been others where there's... Yeah, the Weambilla massacre is another one.
Is this something that we should be wary of? Absolutely. I don't know enough to make this judgment. Just from your experience? Well, from what I'm seeing is it's kind of the first decentralised cult that kind of exists. There's no one figurehead.
It's difficult to escape because it's an echo chamber and there is a full spectrum of people, but ultimately the entire movement itself is based in fear and disconnection. Fear, isolation and disconnection.
Which is a concern.
Yeah. And if you're already feeling like that in your own personal life, often that ideology will appeal to you. And then once you get beyond a certain point, you're deep into it and you're not listening to anything else. And that can manifest in things like Desi Freeman. Because he, from what I gather, he's a predator and a victim at the same time. There's a lot of that in the movement.
There's people who are woe is me kind of attitude, but at the same time, because they feel cornered because they feel like they've got to, you know, put up a fight, they can be very reactive. And whether it comes to violence through shooting police or, or other people, to paper violence, to suing people with documents that are just out there.
But if you don't know what you're looking at, it's scary. You're being dragged into court by this guy or girl that you sense is radical. That's terrifying.
We had someone on the podcast that his ex-partner was in the sovereign citizen movement and started to make his life hell. We had him on, and on the back of that, we got fined, I got fined by the sovereign citizens with the legal document.
How much silver did they want?
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