What does war look like on the ground, for the soldiers who go off to fight? What’s it like to be sent into the muddy confusion of a battlefield, asked to lay down your life for your country?In this episode: two soldiers. A Ukrainian in his 50s and a Russian in his 20s. One of them is still on the battlefield. The other fought for a week, and is now serving a 15 year prison sentence.These two stories explain a lot about how Russia messed this up, and how Ukraine was far stronger than anyone realised.Guests:Isabella Higgins - ABC News Europe CorrespondentSean Rubinsztein-Dunlop - ABC News Investigative ReporterTaras Rodtseyvich - Ukrainian Territorial Defence Volunteer; IT ManagerDr Paul Dibb - Emeritus Professor of Strategic Studies at ANU; Former Director of the Australian Joint Intelligence OrganisationZoya Sheftalovich - contributing editor for POLITICOPOW interview audio courtesy of Volodymyr Zolkin

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“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.