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If You're Listening

Taiwan’s violent, messy, beautiful democracy

03 Jun 2026

Transcription

Transcript generated automatically by AI and may contain errors.

Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?

0.031 - 16.167 Unknown

ABC Listen. Podcasts, radio, news, music and more. At a rural picnic spot in the dark, a young man suddenly disappears. You could nearly say an alien took him away because he's just vanished.

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16.228 - 37.785 Matt Bevan

When more clues from that night surface, something doesn't sit right. It's nonsensical where the stuff is. It's been scattered. I'm Rob Bergen. Join me as I investigate what became of Jack in the new season of Unravel. Is it a murder? Is it someone just gone missing? You know where my son is. Search for the Unravel podcast on ABC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts.

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37.805 - 56.498 Matt Bevan

This podcast was produced on the lands of the Wabakal and Gadigal people. In Australia, we often say that our politicians act like schoolchildren while they're in parliament. But in Taiwan, the connection between the parliament and school is a bit more explicit.

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56.562 - 62.088 Unknown

The building in Taipei's Zhongzheng District was Taipei's second girls' high school in the Japanese colonial era.

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62.309 - 66.594 Matt Bevan

Many of the parliament's offices and committee rooms are former classrooms.

67.134 - 73.542 Unknown

After 60 years in a former girls' school in Taipei, many think a change of scene is needed.

73.602 - 96.751 Matt Bevan

But I don't think that any high school in the world experiences as much violence between its students as the Taiwanese parliament. Type 1's parliament is famous for its brawls. From what I can tell, the violence is of two different types. One is kind of theatrical.

97.172 - 108.49 Matt Bevan

It happens in the parliamentary chamber itself, where the governing party and opposition physically fight over who will sit in the Speaker's chair and direct proceedings.

108.605 - 122.241 Unknown

The Kuomintang party occupied the parliament in protest against what they call government tyranny, forcing members of the ruling Democratic Progressive Party to climb over furniture stacked in front of the entrances.

Chapter 2: What sparked the chaos in Taiwan's parliament?

255.585 - 282.131 Matt Bevan

I'm Matt Bevan, and this is If You're Listening. So, we've got two stories to tell in this episode. The perspective of the puncher and the punchy. So let's start with the punchy, Chen Shui-bian, a member of the Democratic Progressive Party, or the DPP. On the 19th of March 2004, Chen was back in the hospital. This time, it wasn't because of being punched in the head.

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282.912 - 284.254 Matt Bevan

It was because he had been shot.

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284.514 - 295.014 Unknown

Details are still sketchy. What we do know is that President... Chen Shui-bian has been taken to hospital with a stomach wound. There are reports that it's a deep wound, blood pouring out.

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295.535 - 317.183 Matt Bevan

Now, you may have heard the word president there, and that's because in the time between getting punched and getting shot, Chen had had quite a bit of political success. So let me just get you up to speed on his career. He's the classic underdog of Asian politics, a dissident who was jailed for his beliefs with a wife who was paralysed in what some claim was a politically motivated attack.

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317.163 - 344.605 Matt Bevan

She was run over three times by a man in a tractor in 1985. Safe to say these guys have experienced quite a bit of adversity. But that's just how things went at the time for people who prominently opposed the Kuomintang, or the KMT, the nationalist party which controlled Taiwan under a military dictatorship from the 1940s right up until the 1990s. We covered that in our last episode.

345.715 - 377.184 Matt Bevan

Chen Shui-bian was a member of the DPP, the chief opposition party to the KMT. When Taiwan became democratic in the 1990s, Chen was one of the most prominent figures in the DPP. In 1994, he became mayor of Taipei. In 2000, to the KMT's horror, he was elected president. The main beef between the KMT and the DPP was that the two parties fundamentally disagreed on the future of Taiwan.

377.924 - 399.229 Matt Bevan

Historically, the KMT's position was that Taiwan would one day take back the mainland, whereas the DPP saw Taiwan as an independent sovereign state, its own country, essentially. But while Chen and the DPP believed Taiwan should be independent, they didn't actually declare independence, even when they controlled the entire government.

400.171 - 411.649 Unknown

The people of Taiwan live in a fragile state of de facto independence, neither able to declare their independence nor willing to succumb to China's communist regime.

413.072 - 436.118 Matt Bevan

Why the fragile limbo? Why the de facto independence without actually declaring it? Well, the mainland's enormous military exercises simulating an invasion of Taiwan had a little bit to do with it. The Chinese military has stepped up its rhetoric since Chen came to power, making clear it will attack if it feels Taiwan is moving toward a formal declaration of independence.

Chapter 3: What led to the violent altercation between Han Kuo-yu and Chen Shui-bian?

816.563 - 836.149 Matt Bevan

What about Han Kuo-yu from the Nationalist KMT, the guy who did the punching? Well, to find out what happened to him, we need to go to the southern tip of Taiwan. The port of Kaohsiung. If Taipei was Taiwan's political and financial capital, Kaohsiung was its industrial and trade capital.

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836.43 - 840.315 Unknown

Taiwan's biggest and one of the top three container ports in the world.

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840.715 - 848.405 Matt Bevan

Kaohsiung was a stronghold for the Democratic Progressive Party, Chen's party. The DPP dominated local politics there.

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848.465 - 852.711 Unknown

DPP figures have occupied the mayor's seat in Kaohsiung for two decades.

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852.792 - 873.758 Matt Bevan

But like many industrial cities in developed countries in the 21st century, Kaohsiung began to fall on hard times. Young people struggled to find good jobs and began moving to Taipei for better opportunities. By the mid-2010s, there was an increasing feeling of stagnation and people started looking for someone to stir things up a bit.

874.7 - 879.846 Matt Bevan

Noted head puncher Han Guoyu put his hand up to be that someone.

879.893 - 885.924 Unknown

Han Kuo-yu has been chosen to run for mayor of the city after a party primary conducted by Pol.

886.385 - 892.957 Matt Bevan

After the nationalist KMT nominated him for mayor, Han told the voters of Kaohsiung it was time for a change.

893.438 - 903.657 Unknown

Kaohsiung doesn't owe the DPP anything at all. After 20 years, the 20 years the DPP has been empowering Kaohsiung, I can sum it up in just four words, outdated and hard up.

Chapter 4: How did Chen Shui-bian's presidency change Taiwan's political landscape?

1573.388 - 1579.313 Unknown

In the sky and at sea, China's forces have Taiwan surrounded.

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1579.374 - 1611.791 Matt Bevan

We'll get into that in the next episode. This episode of If You're Listening was written by Adair Shepherd and me, Matt Bevan. Supervising producer is Cara Jensen-McKinnon. Sound engineer is Anna John. It was produced by Adair Shepherd and Pat Sunderland. Oh, by the way, if you're wondering, that love Ferris wheel where every pod is a private motel room, yep, that was never built. Sorry.

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