Tomer London is the co-founder and Chief Product Officer at Gusto, the payroll and people platform used by over 400,000 businesses. He grew up helping run his dad’s clothing store in Israel — an experience that sparked his mission to build better tools for small business owners. After moving to the US for a PhD at Stanford, he met his co-founders and started Gusto. In today’s episode, we discuss: Reinventing payroll without any prior experience Why you should hire for humility, not just talent Gusto’s scrappy customer research: cold calling from a walk-in closet Why founders should embrace customer rejection Why “emotional urgency” matters more than polite feedback The weekly co-founder ritual that built trust How Gusto expanded from payroll to a multi-product platform Building products customers actually love And so much more Referenced: ADP Eddie Kim Gusto Intuit Josh Reeves Paychex Steve Jobs’ “Secrets to Life” clip Steve Jobs’ Stanford Commencement Speech Wells Fargo Y Combinator Where to find Tomer: LinkedIn Twitter/X Where to find Brett: LinkedIn Twitter/X Where to find First Round Capital: Website First Round Review Twitter/X YouTube This podcast on all platforms Timestamps: (00:00) How a childhood around SMBs shaped Tomer’s founder mindset (03:24) The three things that led to the creation of Gusto (07:17) Hiring for humility, not just talent (09:28) The tug-of-war test for product-market fit (11:58) Why founders should actively seek rejection (15:34) Gusto’s scrappy customer research: cold calling from a walk-in closet (17:45) Betting on SMBs – and ignoring investor advice (20:44) “It’s not an MVP, it’s something that wows people” (24:09) Serving SMBs vs. startups (28:36) How to find the right co-founders (31:09) The weekly co-founder ritual that built trust (35:02) Reinventing payroll without any prior experience (38:49) Gusto’s “start small” GTM playbook (42:16) The big opportunity Gusto wishes they tackled sooner (43:58) How switching costs became Gusto’s moat (47:25) The two lucky breaks that gave Gusto an edge (51:56) What Tomer learned about customers from his dad’s clothing store

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