Newly released Epstein files show thousands of messages between Jeffrey Epstein and wellness guru Deepak Chopra. What were they talking about—and why was Epstein so interested in consciousness and spirituality? Vanessa and Natalie are joined by Matthew Remski, co-host of the podcast Conspirituality, to unpack Chopra’s rise, the business of wellness, and why the world’s richest men keep turning to spiritual gurus.You can also check out Matthew’s other podcast, Antifascist Dad Podcast, and his forthcoming book of the same name. Click ‘Subscribe’ at the top of the Infamous show page on Apple Podcasts or visit GetTheBinge.com to get access wherever you get your podcasts. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts Read Vanessa’s book, Blurred Lines: Sex, Power and Consent on Campus, and check out Natalie on Instagram at @natrobe To connect with Infamous's creative team, join the community at joincampsidemedia.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.