I don’t think a war with Iran is what Trump — or his voters — had in mind when he campaigned on “America first.” My guest this week is Curt Mills, the executive director of The American Conservative, a magazine that champions foreign policy restraint. Mills thinks the war with Iran is a major betrayal of the voters who put Trump in the White House and has the potential to shatter Trump’s domestic coalition. 01:27 - Tracking the Trump administration’s foreign policy shifts and dynamics 08:50 - The different strands of right-wing foreign policy 15:00 - Is the anti-war movement real?: Policy, polling and public opinion 27:49 - Israel, Saudi Arabia and the Middle East’s influence on U.S. foreign policy 40:17 - Why can’t Trump say no to Israel? 46:20 - How does the fallout in Iran impact Trump’s potential 2028 successors and insurgents? (A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.