Evangelical pastor and self-proclaimed Christian nationalist Doug Wilson has been preaching for decades that America needs to reclaim its Puritan past. But in 2025, he believes he’s “significantly” more influential. Does that mean America is closer to Wilson’s goal of theocracy? In this episode, nothing is off limits — even Ross’s own salvation.01:36 - Doug Wilson's vision for a Christian nation08:37 - Wilson’s ideal theocratic republic19:12 - Theocracy and religious diversity30:50 - Do women have rights in this new republic?36:59 - Christendom and slavery46:50 - How far does Wilson’s influence go in a “clown world”?59:54 - Calvinism activism and quietism(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

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“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.