What is wrong with higher education in America? According to many on the right, a lot. This week, Ross Douthat talks to May Mailman, the lawyer behind President Trump’s battles with Harvard and Columbia, about the administration’s assault on the Ivy League and why “a glorification of victimhood” is changing the relationship between universities and the federal government.02:51 - What is a “culture of victimhood”?07:38 - Mailman’s political awakening11:44 - Social media and protest culture in the 2010s19:39 - The Trump administration’s strategy against universities26:33 - The financial levers that could ensure compliance36:09 - Ideological diversity and free speech47:56 - How legal is all this?52:25 - Higher education in 2030Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.A full transcript of this episode is also available on the Times website. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

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“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.