U.F.O.s, fairies and abductions! This week, Ross talks to Diana Walsh Pasulka, a professor of religious studies, about how a deep dive into Catholic archives led her down a path to unravel the connections between religion, extraterrestrial encounters and government secrecy.01:53 - How Pasulka’s religious studies led to the U.F.O. debate06:08 - Modern U.F.O. encounters and telepathic communication13:29 - What are the actual beliefs of the U.F.O. community?19:28 - Whistleblowers and government contradictions31:35 - Angels, demons and “actual things in the sky”45:38 - Disclosure52:51 - “Amazing.”(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

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“What did the council decide on item 42?” — answered with the speaker and the moment.